Transat Jacques Vabre 2015

[Roberto]

Hugo Boss has taken a slightly more SWly route and is leading the IMOCA class :encouragement:

One of the big tris has capsized, a couple of foiled Imoca are probably abandoning.
A big chunk of the fleet (some imoca and most C40) is going due west to meet the front, though forecast wind seems higher than they expect.

http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/en

 

[Woodlouse]

The app is disappointing. But the race will be interesting, we will finally find out what these new open 60s can do.

 

[grafozz]

The Ultime trimaran of Lionel Lemonchois and Roland Jourdain has capsized while they were 140 miles off La Coruna

Terrible bad luck , crew all ok

 

[TOKOLOSHI]

The Ultime trimaran of Lionel Lemonchois and Roland Jourdain has capsized while they were 140 miles off La Coruna

Terrible bad luck , crew all ok

The Ultime trimaran of Lionel Lemonchois and Roland Jourdain has capsized while they were 140 miles off La Coruna. The two co-skippers are safe and have taken shelter inside the trimaran. They have not requested assistance and their technical team is making every effort to organise help to rescue them and their vessel. At the time of the incident the boat was upwind in 20 to 25kts of SSW’ly wind.

I would have thought they could weather 20-25 knots of wind! Going too fast? any answers yet?

 

[Woodlouse]

The Ultime trimaran of Lionel Lemonchois and Roland Jourdain has capsized while they were 140 miles off La Coruna. The two co-skippers are safe and have taken shelter inside the trimaran. They have not requested assistance and their technical team is making every effort to organise help to rescue them and their vessel. At the time of the incident the boat was upwind in 20 to 25kts of SSW’ly wind.

I would have thought they could weather 20-25 knots of wind! Going too fast? any answers yet?

It could conceivably have been a gear failure which prevented them from dropping the traveller when overpowered but the multihulls capsize all the time in this race just because they're pushing so hard. Remember that a 20-25 knot headwind will be more like 40 knots apparent for boats like that.

 

[Roberto]

Hugo Boss is diverting to Vigo to complete some repairs

Too bad for the IMOCA foilers: HB, Safran, EdRotschild...

 

[flaming]

Did make me laugh when in a pre race video they reffered to the difference between the foil assisted boats and the "traditional" boats.

Yep, those canting keeled, wing masted, twin daggerboard, water ballasted traditional boats....

Shame to see the foil boats dropping out due to reliability though, I think a lot of people (not least the sailors) were really looking forward to seeing how they went in this race. Still 2 in the race, and they're in touch, so it could still be interesting.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

The girls in the class40 are hanging in there so we still have some home interest. pretty high attrition rate though.

 

[flaming]

The girls in the class40 are hanging in there so we still have some home interest. pretty high attrition rate though.

Absolutely! Pip Hare is a good friend, and here's hoping they keep climbing that leaderboard!

 

[Woodlouse]

Did make me laugh when in a pre race video they reffered to the difference between the foil assisted boats and the "traditional" boats.

Yep, those canting keeled, wing masted, twin daggerboard, water ballasted traditional boats....

Shame to see the foil boats dropping out due to reliability though, I think a lot of people (not least the sailors) were really looking forward to seeing how they went in this race. Still 2 in the race, and they're in touch, so it could still be interesting.

It's a pity the attrition rate has been so high with these new 60's. They've clearly got s lot of work to get through before the vender next year.

 

[Foolish Muse]

It's a pity the attrition rate has been so high with these new 60's.

I think you just have to look at the design of the daggerboard/foil combination to see something that is inherently fragile. It seems to me that they are trying to literally lift the boat out of the water, a la the Americas Cup multis. They would be better off to use the more traditional (referring to Flaming's post #7 above) DSS foil sticking out the side of the hull. Those foils only lift the boat slightly, and actually smooth the ride a whole bunch. But the new foils on the 60's seem to bounce the boat up and down a lot. Of course this would require a rule change to allow for the extra appendages, but I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be done.

 

[flaming]

I think you just have to look at the design of the daggerboard/foil combination to see something that is inherently fragile. It seems to me that they are trying to literally lift the boat out of the water, a la the Americas Cup multis. They would be better off to use the more traditional (referring to Flaming's post #7 above) DSS foil sticking out the side of the hull. Those foils only lift the boat slightly, and actually smooth the ride a whole bunch. But the new foils on the 60's seem to bounce the boat up and down a lot. Of course this would require a rule change to allow for the extra appendages, but I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be done.

As you say, it means a rule change, they are allowed a maximum of 5 moveable appendages. So a keel, 2 boards and 2 rudders. The mustache foils are a result of a foil that needs to be both a lifting foil and a lateral, anti leeway, foil.
As I understand it the Open 60 rules are fixed after each Vendee for the 4 year cycle before the next Vendee. My guess is they may well decide that they want to revisit this part of the rule after the vendee, though obviously not before.

 

[flaming]

I think you just have to look at the design of the daggerboard/foil combination to see something that is inherently fragile.

Also, just been posted on SA, but it's starting to look like it's not the foils, but the novel new stringer arrangement that the new boats are using that is causing the issues.

 

[Foolish Muse]

but the novel new stringer arrangement that the new boats are using that is causing the issues.

Yes, that's why I mentioned the bouncing that the boats are undergoing. I think it's the bouncing that is causing the structural damage to the hulls/stringers. The traditional DSS foil out the side reduces bouncing, but when I'm looking at the new 60s videos, this foil on the bottom bottom seems to increase the bouncing. It seems they are trying to lift the boat right out of the water, rather than just lift it a few inches as the DSS is designed to do.

 

[flaming]

Yes, that's why I mentioned the bouncing that the boats are undergoing. I think it's the bouncing that is causing the structural damage to the hulls/stringers. The traditional DSS foil out the side reduces bouncing, but when I'm looking at the new 60s videos, this foil on the bottom bottom seems to increase the bouncing. It seems they are trying to lift the boat right out of the water, rather than just lift it a few inches as the DSS is designed to do.

Have you seen the video interview that Anarchy did with Alex Thompson? They touch on that subject, and Alex's opinion was that the slamming is less than the traditional boats as the foil cushions the blow a bit. Still says they have to back off though.

Another interesting observation is that retirements due to gear failure are higher in 2 handed events, due to pushing that little bit harder. Maybe a factor?

Still, currently the only foil boat left has taken the lead and is sailing a knot or two faster in the same conditions, so I guess the emphasis is likely to be on beefing up the boat one way or another!

 

[Foolish Muse]

When I interviewed Hugh Welbourn he explained that the foil was certainly designed to dampen bouncing. But when In looking at the 60s videos I'm seeing 3/4 of the boat out of the water at some points. Perhaps what we are seeing in the TJV is the difference between near-shore testing and off-shore racing? I know with my own 30' ultralight boat, on the rare occasions that it comes out of the water, it slams down pretty darned hard. Rattles my bones and my teeth. Can you imagine what it would be like for one of these 60s to launch into the air out of a 30 foot wave in the Southern Ocean? Thank heavens carbon is light. They'll have to beef up the boats an awful lot.

 

[DFL1010]

Hugo Boss sinking and abandoned.

http://www.alexthomsonracing.com/update-emergency-situation/

There really isn't much time between now and the Vendée Globe (start is 6 Nov 2016). Wouldn't surprise me if some of the new boats weren't ready by then, but I imagine the chaps at VPLP/Verdier are busy with their slide-rules right about now.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Hugo Boss sinking and abandoned.

http://www.alexthomsonracing.com/update-emergency-situation/

There really isn't much time between now and the Vendée Globe (start is 6 Nov 2016). Wouldn't surprise me if some of the new boats weren't ready by then, but I imagine the chaps at VPLP/Verdier are busy with their slide-rules right about now.

They will be busy with their lawyers I would guess.

 

[DFL1010]

One very poorly boat.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Someone should show Alex how to put on a life vest!