Trailer Sailor - Training and size

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

In terms of training, based on your intended sailing grounds I'd go the Competent Crew/Day Skipper route. I initially took the Keelboat courses on the Norfolk Broads (great fun!) but moved over to Day Skipper etc and personally found it much more relevant to coastal sailing. I don't recall learning about navigation or navigation marks (passage planning, charts, standard buoyage etc) on the keelboat courses, but this is a big part of the Day Skipper theory courses. There are plenty of good online courses for the theory sections too.

Happy Sailing!

I was speaking of my experience while training under the Irish Sailing Association, which generally adheres very closely to RYA standards. Under that organisation's Small Boat Sailing Scheme , AFAIR, one would theoretically attain Day Skipper standard on reaching Level 3 in Keelboats, and Level 4 in Dinghys, and be able to calculate tides , and do chartwork and pilotage to a level necessary to make a short coastal/inshore passage. I am disappointed to find that the RYA's schemes are not up to the same standard.

 

[Seajet]

One thing which I don't think has been mentioned, if you trail a lift keeler ( of virtually any size ) home for the winter, unless you adapt the trailer or have a crane handy at your home, you won't be able to lower the keel and carry out the vital maintenance on the keel plate.

I keep my Anderson 22 lift keeler on high trestles for this reason at the club every winter, she's hoisted on and off these.

I would say the A22 is too big, heavy and the running rigging too complex to set up as a frequent trailer sailer launching more than a couple of times a season at different places and would require a serious car like a Range Rover.

Also consider the difficulties of getting to a slipway on a busy sunny day, then where do you securely leave the car and trailer...

IMO a club mooring - probably drying - and a crane in and out from the club yard is hard to beat for convenience and can be very cost effective too.

 

[pij27]

This is obviously the million dollar quest, which boat?
I have seen a number of manufacturers, Westerley, Jaguar, Newbridge, Drascombe, and individual boats listed. But not really seen anything which makes one stand out above the others.
Are there any which based on peoples experiences they should be avoided. Or do a few fall under the title as ideal, meaning that they satisfy most peoples requirements covering a range of abilities and accomodation?
This will probably open the floodgatess, but hopefully can start to see a number of boats where they have had happy ownership and some where they were let go quickly due to issues of handling or issue of build.

 

[Redfox226]

I started looking at Swallow boats 7 years ago, and although I liked them very much, was put off by the cost as not many available second hand. Ended up with a Red Fox 200E (20ft 2+2 berth) which is still being produced by British Hunter as the Mini 20C. She has looked after me well for the past 6 years on the North Sea and elsewhere. After issues with the original single axle breakback trailer, I changed to a twin axle Swingbeam Roller trailer which is much more satisfactory. She is flatbottomed with lifting asymmetric bilgeboards, a kick-up rudder and outboard in a well and hence dries out really well. A bit like a big 'Dinghy with a lid!'

 

[mrming]

This is obviously the million dollar quest, which boat?
I have seen a number of manufacturers, Westerley, Jaguar, Newbridge, Drascombe, and individual boats listed. But not really seen anything which makes one stand out above the others.
Are there any which based on peoples experiences they should be avoided. Or do a few fall under the title as ideal, meaning that they satisfy most peoples requirements covering a range of abilities and accomodation?
This will probably open the floodgatess, but hopefully can start to see a number of boats where they have had happy ownership and some where they were let go quickly due to issues of handling or issue of build.

I don’t think you can solve the tension between ease of launching / rigging and comfortable accommodation / longer waterline / bigger sailplan for performance.

If you can say which side of the fence you fall on then people can recommend from there. All boats are a compromise but when it comes to trailer sailers the compromises are many!

 

[richardabeattie]

Don't buy a boat - go sailing with other people and then you will know what's do-able

 

[Seajet]

Don't buy a boat - go sailing with other people and then you will know what's do-able

Agreed; and make that include getting something like a Wayfarer up a slipway !

 

[pij27]

Seems that I have to work out whether I want to keep on a mooring during spring to autumn and then bring out or just to lauch and recover when going sailing. With this decision made, can then look over the market. Though from some of the posts, a launch or recovery needs a fair amount of planning.

 

[Seajet]

Pij27,

I'm taking my Anderson 22 from her mooring in Chichester Harbour to the club hoist then she'll be lifted for her winter ashore on trestles, on Saturday 21st Oct, you are welcome to come along and watch it all happening, we bring ashore about 25 cruisers of all sizes each day over 3 days - PM me if interested, Andy.

 

[TSB240]

Seems that I have to work out whether I want to keep on a mooring during spring to autumn and then bring out or just to lauch and recover when going sailing. With this decision made, can then look over the market. Though from some of the posts, a launch or recovery needs a fair amount of planning.

Our recent 24 foot trailable yacht was well geared up for trailing and launching. I could single handedly raise and lower the mast with a gin pole. All standing rigging and roller reefed Genoa were left connected except for the forestay. The boom and main remained ready with just the goose neck to refit. Rigging time was minimised by leaving as much as possible in place for transit. We used a 4 by 4 for launch and recovery with a front mounted tow ball and telescopic draw bar to keep the vehicle out of the water. Planned well this made relocation from one cruising ground to another or back home a realistic proposition maybe with up to two or three areas visited each year. We particularly enjoyed relocating to South Brittany. Trailer Sailing anything this size every weekend is not practical. Recovery to a trailer takes longer than launching. Our best time was 3hours from sailing to trailing behind the car. Launching and sailing would be half that. All the areas we frequented had wide shallow gradient ,protected slipway for launching and recovery. Launching trailer and car storage is free in Brittany! Recovery can be quicker if there is a crane available.
IMHO if you want a boat that won't limit you to fair weather sailing then you need to consider something as large as you can legally tow. We happily cruised our boat around the Irish Sea .

 

[Seajet]

So how did you get a space on a slip on a sunny day, launch your boat, find a safe place for the car and trailer, come back to put up the mast, bimble off as long as the tide allowed, then do it all in reverse, amongst everyone else with the same idea at such times then ?

Trailer sailing even a small yacht is a lovely idea, but when one goes into the details it's not practical - FFS join a club and get a half tide mooring.

I've offered to show all the details and advantages of a half tide mooring and going ashore for the winter and at least seeing the hoist operations with small to large boats would I think be useful gen for the OP.

Even a small cruiser like a Skipper / Eagle 17 or similar seems the size, weight and hassle of a battleship when trying to drag the thing ashore.

 

[GeeW]

Seajet
Will have to agree to differ on that.
I regularly use 2 slipways (and sometimes a beach) within Chichester Hbr. All have parking within 100 paces of the slip. I would agree that boats over 900 or so kg are rather more of a task and take longer and a half tide mooring may be more appropriate.
My current trailer sailer, which tips the scales at 600 kg, takes me just over the hour to rig and launch and about the same coming back out. Normally have one helper (but only needed for a total of 5 mins.)

 

[scottie]

One thing which I don't think has been mentioned, if you trail a lift keeler ( of virtually any size ) home for the winter, unless you adapt the trailer or have a crane handy at your home, you won't be able to lower the keel and carry out the vital maintenance on the keel plate.

I keep my Anderson 22 lift keeler on high trestles for this reason at the club every winter, she's hoisted on and off these.

I would say the A22 is too big, heavy and the running rigging too complex to set up as a frequent trailer sailer launching more than a couple of times a season at different places and would require a serious car like a Range Rover.

Also consider the difficulties of getting to a slipway on a busy sunny day, then where do you securely leave the car and trailer...

IMO a club mooring - probably drying - and a crane in and out from the club yard is hard to beat for convenience and can be very cost effective too.

I thought Anderson 22 were faultless?

 

[Seajet]

I thought Anderson 22 were faultless?

You were wrong then, I could give you a list of faults.

It's just they're better than anything superficially comparable.

 

[TSB240]

Seajet
Will have to agree to differ on that.
I regularly use 2 slipways (and sometimes a beach) within Chichester Hbr. All have parking within 100 paces of the slip. I would agree that boats over 900 or so kg are rather more of a task and take longer and a half tide mooring may be more appropriate.
My current trailer sailer, which tips the scales at 600 kg, takes me just over the hour to rig and launch and about the same coming back out. Normally have one helper (but only needed for a total of 5 mins.)

The only difference between your current trailer sailer and my old boat is a bit of weight.and a taller mast. My background in Industrial engineering lead me to invest in key things to make the task of launching as simple as removing electrics undoing two heavy duty ratchet straps , reversing the boat into the water with or without the mast raised. This can be done on or off the water with a simple gin pole and a supportive telescopic mast crutch. Weight of boat is only a problem if your tow vehicle is not up to the job. Plenty of operators in many areas offer park and launch to help if you don't want to own a 4 by 4. You can hire a towvan when it may be required. Weekdays are always less busy than weekends but I have never had a problem or caused a problem of blocking a slipway for any longer than most ribs take to be launched or recovered.

I am not advocating that this would be done every weekend. I just don't agree that you cant effectively trail and sail a boat as heavy or heavier than an Anderson 22. Nor do I think that joining a club and having a half tide mooring is the only solution. It is wonderfully liberating to be able to go on holiday where you want, try new sailing grounds a couple of times each year and have your boat home when you want. My trailer was particularly good as it was possible to unbolt a section under the keel and lower the keel for maintenance ashore. Recovery was a doddle as it had fully supportive self centering bunks no rollers or winch were needed.

To the Op I would say that much that Andy says I would agree with but the fact he has a preference for a lift keeling supersonic 22 foot boat kept at a very good club and chooses to crane it into the same location each year is his possibly eggsellent (sp) choice.

He has a record for poo pooing anything that does not fit his own eggsperience (Deliberate sp as for some reason my eggs key doesnt work!)

 

[Seajet]

Actually I'm open to ideas and always make an aim of trying boats and experiences new to me, even if a boat seems an obvious or infamous dog there'll be something to learn; as I run the owner's association I've been involved with helping a lot of other Anderson 22's trailing, and on holidays on other people's in various places, which is how I came to the conclusion ' knickers to this ! ' re regularly trailing and launching an Anderson - but of course some other boats would make the A22 seem easy .

You could trailer sail a Contessa 32 or a J class like Velsheda if you wanted, but I'd suggest you wear one of those wristband heart monitor jobs.

Andy :encouragement:

 

[pij27]

So, with planning trailing a boat and launch/recovery is not too difficult, but not a simple task either. A mooring, whether step aboard or half tide mooring, sounds like a good compromise. Allowing more time to sail, and then when want to either maintain or try a new area bring her out onto dry land.
From all the comments, the major issue is set-up times and the launch/recovery.

 

[TSB240]

So, with planning trailing a boat and launch/recovery is not too difficult, but not a simple task either. A mooring, whether step aboard or half tide mooring, sounds like a good compromise. Allowing more time to sail, and then when want to either maintain or try a new area bring her out onto dry land.
From all the comments, the major issue is set-up times and the launch/recovery.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. If you "gear up " and invest your time and money and learn from others with actual experience of regular trailing then these issues can be managed. This will give you more relaxed time on the water with the flexibility of home storage/maintenance and varied seasonal cruising grounds. Win Win.

Steve

 

[pij27]

Now all need to do is find a nice boat, I know there is no such thing as the perfect boat, but with everyones experiences and knowledge, are there any models that should be avoided or atleast approached with caution. If had a list of those boats, which are better as a floating caravan with limited ability compared to a nice sailing vessel with ok accomodation then would be appreciated.

I believe that most of my initial sailing will be day sail and weekend sails, using a marina for the night and once more experience gained then venture into upto a week sailing and living on-board.
I have seen a number of Newbridge Navigators on various websites, but also seen people say avoid due to very poor performance.
Everyone will have their favorites, but ideally like an idea of those boats which did not get good reviews or that people owned and then sold on quickly due to not being a nice boat.

Probably asking the million dollar question, but hopefully may get some honest replies.

Thanks in advance

Peter

 

[mrming]

I don’t know about the Newbridge Navigator but I know a thing or two about later model trailer sailors as I own one.

Most of the more popular models sail well. Off the top of my head that includes boats from Beneteau, Jeanneau, Dehler, Etap, Hunter, Red Fox (now sold as the Hunter 20), Parker, Trapper, Jaguar (Catalina in the US), Evolution, and of course the legendary Anderson 22. Some are racier than others in that they set more sail in relation to the amount of ballast they carry. This info is usually available if you look up the boat on sailboatdata.com - if the SA/D (sail area over displacement) figure is higher than 20 the boat is going to be a performer that may need reefing earlier than others.

In terms of accommodation, the best advice I can give is to go and look at a few and see what you think. They usually feel a lot smaller than they look in the photos.

From a sailing point of view, the obvious one to avoid is the MacGregor 26X, however given the discussion about ease of launching etc, those are a little large in any case.