Trailer Sailor - Training and size

[pij27]

I am looking at getting a trailer sailor or small keelboat for sailing around the isle of wight and the solent. I have seen a number for sale in the area, with and without their trailers. So may keep on a mooring, either pontoon or swinging/drying out mooring.
My main question is to get some sail training, should I go down the RYA Competant Crew, Day Skipper route or via the Keelboat Stages 1, 2 & 3 route? Mainly as the keelboat courses seem to be on small yachts around trailerable size.

Also, as most of my sailing will end up either being solo or two persons, where I will probably do the majority of the roles what sort of size should I look for. I have seen various yachts from a Hunter 490 & Skipper 17 to 25ft yachts, with various costs from £700 to £4000.

 

[Cookie Jar]

Hi pij27,

It all boils down to making a "reality check" on how you will actually use the boat.
Daysailing for a couple of hours? What´s your background (sailing wise)? Do you know the basics or starting fresh? Do you have storage for her in the off-season, or will you have to pay for it? How powerful is your "tractor" to pull her?

I sailed for many years in the past and owned different boats, but then made a full and complete stop in boat ownership... and for more or less 15years I did not own a (sail)boat. Two years ago my life changed (yet again) and I realized that I really wanted to spend some time afloat with the family/alone on weekends... so even though what I would like to have would be a bigger boat, after doing a detailed "reality check" (budget, time available, maintenance costs, storage, sailing buddies, etc...) I ended up buying an open keelboat (20ft) and I am very happy with my choice.
The family (Admiral and daughters) like boats, but not so high on their priority list, so I get to sail with and without them, without too much fuss and with a small impact on the family budget. I keep her on a pontoon for the season (so I just show up and sail away) and I trailer her back to my garage for the winter... (yes... the car will spend the winter outside )
I can step the mast all by myself, and pull her behind my very modest car.

If it´s really nice weather we all go... if not so great, I go. And for me alone I do not need a cabin, so I am very happy with it.
It´s a fin (fixed) keel so I have a fully unobstructed cockpit, bigger than almost all cabin boats of her size...

Regarding training, if you are just starting then a course will be extremely good and you will learn a lot, but on the other hand, if you know the basics and/or your goals are only to "play around" I would not climb all the stairs in keelboat training... just enough to get you sailing on your own.
Having/making a couple of friends with boats and going out with them (or them with you) will take you a long way.

 

[ProDave]

We bought an 18ft6 trailor sailor nearly 10 years ago now. Initially with no idea how we would use her. Only then did we go looking at slipways, harbours, moorings etc.

The year we got her, in September we launched her from the slipway, kept her in the water for 3 weeks, sailed her 3 times then recovered her from the slipway and brought her home for the winter with a list of upgrades required.

Since then we found a permanent berth and now we crane in and out at the start and end of the season. We rapidly concluded if we had to go through the faff of launch and recover each time we simply would not sail much. Nothing beats going to the harbour and within 10 minutes of arriving to have the wind in the sails.

Launching from the slipway is not hard but recovery is a lot harder, and I just don't like dunking the trailer in the sea, so crane in and out each year makes very much more sense for us.

Look for a club near you, make some friends, sail on their boats (people are always looking for crew) then get some tuition from one of them on your own boat.

 

[Cookie Jar]

brought her home for the winter with a list of upgrades required..

Oh yes!

I don´t know how deep your pockets are, but if they´re anything like mine, don´t go spending a lot of money in the purchase... because the above will invariably happen!

Whatever you buy, sail it as it is for the first season. Then, with more experience under the belt you will know exactly(ish) where you need to spend money on.
On my first buys, I spent so much money on things "I thought" I needed and ended up replacing them later down the line... or not using them at all! :ambivalence:

 

[pcatterall]

Also decide how much trailering you are going to do.
Perhaps you will just trail to your chosen sailing ground and keep her there for the season, returning to home for the winter where you can access for any work. ( suggest up to 25 feet)
Or you may want to visit places and launch for a day or a few days. ( suggest 17 to 19 feet)
Your towing vehicle might become important as you go up in size.
Without more knowledge of your requirements I would recommend start small! ( Leisure 17?)

 

[GeeW]

Having been a trailer sailor for the past 20 years or so, I would like to add my £0.02's worth.
If you are going to launch and recover regularly then flush bottomed is best. Think possibly Shipmate Senior, Skipper 17 sort of boats. If you would like to leave the boat afloat unattended for weeks then think a little bigger say Leisure 17 etc.
Once you go bigger with keels then the whole operation becomes a bigger task.

Launching and recovering single handed takes practice. Also choosing a decent sheltered slipway makes life easier until you have had a few attempts. With 2 people any trailer sailer up to about 800 kgs is very doable in most weathers.
Trailers/bearings that are immersed regularly will require more maintenance. Un-braked trailers are a doddle as if fitted with bearing savers then once a year is apple servicing. Takes 15 mins per wheel (after a bit of practice).

My suggestion would be go with something 16 or 17 feet, flush bottomed.....it will likely cost about £1500 or so and go try it for a year. If you don't get on with it sell it on for probably what you paid for it and by then you will know more accurately which way you want to go sailing wise.

 

[Seajet]

' Trailer Sailing ' takes enormous effort and organisation; try you and your partner even pulling a Wayfarer up a weedy slipway !

Go dinghy sailing first, then get a lift or bilge keel cruiser able to go on a surprisingly good value half tide mooring - if you are able to make Chichester Harbour PM me and I'll happily demonstrate.

Andy

 

[William_H]

The OP's question is one only he can answer from experience. Obviously he wants to buy his last boat first ie one that will satisfy him long term. Now a small boat means less cost and so less loss he finds he does not use it as he might imagine.
The problem being that a small boat is less comfortable in rougher water so where and when he sails becomes critical. Bigger is better in that regard. But costs go up dramatically. I feel that 22ft is a good size for being a bit more comfortable and fast in rougher water. But then 22ft becomes a bit big for trailer sailing and is better suited for a mooring.
My only suggestion is to do some sail training which might give him a feel for different sized boats. But for me I have had my 21ft TS for 35 years and still love it and sail almost every weekend for 7 months of the year but it stays on a mooring for that time. olewill

 

[TQA]

I was in a similar quandary and finished up with a swing keel Jaguar 22. I started by looking 17 = 18 ft boats and found that many people were selling them to buy something around 22 ft. I was able to raise the mast on my own launch on my own and recover on my own. The recovery was difficult to begin with but fitting a pair of guide arms amidships solved that.

I sailed her around the Solent, the West coast of Scotland and the Adriatic. I towed with the Big 2.4 litre Citroen CX.

I had sailed a dinghy before and learned by doing. Although I enlisted my friend Jim 'the schuss' Anderson to teach me how to raise and dowse the spinnaker.

 

[RobF]

It might help if you narrow down your choice of boat and then decide what course would be best. If you're looking at the upper end of a trailer sailer size (above 20 foot), you may find that the CompCrew/Day Skipper would be best, whereas the smaller vessels may make the Keelboat course more sensible. Depending on budget, you may want to do both styles of courses as both will teach you useful stuff about sailing.

With regards to size, this is down to personal preference. I suggest you have a look at as many boats as you can and get a feel for what you like best. Many trailer sailers are in the 19-21 foot range and this might be the best option by virtue of the availability of boats. Clearly some boats have a performance orientation whereas others are oriented on accommodation - do you have a preference?

 

[mickywillis]

Maybe a bit big for you but superb VFM.
Theres 2 for sale, but this one is the best value:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Westerly-...110028?hash=item3621d919cc:g:3IsAAOSwuZhZlK6k

 

[Redfox226]

With regards to size, this is down to personal preference. I suggest you have a look at as many boats as you can and get a feel for what you like best. Many trailer sailers are in the 19-21 foot range and this might be the best option by virtue of the availability of boats. Clearly some boats have a performance orientation whereas others are oriented on accommodation - do you have a preference?

Agree with everythig you say Rob, but surprised you didn't mention the Red Fox/ Hunter Mini 20C!

 

[pij27]

Lots of good advice for me to consider. Like the idea of keep on a mooring in the summer and remove on trailer in the winter, with the option to move to different sailing area. obviously with a large number of vessels in this range what are the sensible things to look for and what are the extra's? Want something that is comfortable and can be sailed single handed or with two, where the second member is not an experienced sailor.

 

[mrming]

Lots of good advice for me to consider. Like the idea of keep on a mooring in the summer and remove on trailer in the winter, with the option to move to different sailing area. obviously with a large number of vessels in this range what are the sensible things to look for and what are the extra's? Want something that is comfortable and can be sailed single handed or with two, where the second member is not an experienced sailor.

If it can be trailer sailed it can be sailed two handed. For single handing a roller headsail is useful.

As said by everyone else in the thread, the trade off is comfort vs ability to launch, recover and step the mast. The comfortable boats are bigger (like our swing keel First 235) and much harder to launch, recover and rig.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

If it can be trailer sailed it can be sailed two handed. For single handing a roller headsail is useful.

As said by everyone else in the thread, the trade off is comfort vs ability to launch, recover and step the mast. The comfortable boats are bigger (like our swing keel First 235) and much harder to launch, recover and rig.

A roller headsail makes stepping and unstepping the mast a more complicated matter. It's fine if the boat is kept afloat, but is a PITA if true "trailer-sailing" is the intention.
With reference to the OP's two core questions, I would recommend a size between 19 and 23ft. Anything bigger is getting into the more "pedestrian" cruising boat category and would be more of a handful in many respects.
On the question of training, AFAIK CC syllabus does not include any aspects of Theory: Chartwork, Tidal Calculations etc., therefore I would recommend the Keelboat option, which is geared towards the use of boats in the relevant size range. There is much more emphasis on boat-handling, and one learns how much fun can be had, putting vessels of this size through their paces, you don't often get to come alongside a quay under sail in a 30+ footer, after all . The Keelboat programme will take you up to a level comparable to Day Skipper, but with much more actual skill, and if you combine it with a Theory course during the winter, you would have no difficulty attaining a DS qualification if you wanted. I would also recommend following that up with a Keelboat Instructor Course, where you would fine-tune those skills and derive great satisfaction, even if you never went on to actually instruct.
Regarding inexperienced crew member; why not get that person to get some training also? It would increase enjoyment of the boat for both.

 

[pij27]

Thanks, lots of good advice. Now off to find a good boat and start sailing again.

 

[aquaplane]

I have kept a First 18 on my drive and trail sailed it for 3 or 4, 1 and 2 week holidays a year and maybe a long W/E at Easter so maybe 5 launches and recovery's a year, for a couple of years, it's worth it if you do have a decent sail once launched. Tow vehicle was a large family car (Pug 406 size), no problems.
I used the boat more frequently on a weekend when it was on a mooring and only trailed it to the broads, Clyde, Loch Lomond once or twice a year for a cruise.
A Micro 18 footer is easy to launch and recover especially with crew, guide bars certainly help I'd never try without now. Guide bars are good for any boat size if you are dunking the trailer.
I could step the mast on my 20' Harrier single handed using a winch and pole, the 18'er was easy enough freehand.
I reckoned 2 hours to launch or recover from roadworthy to sailing away, but the first time was closer to 4 hours.
If you are going to trail, the condition of the trailer is more important than that of the boat, the trailer could give you much more grief. A boat without trailer and budget to buy a properly spec'ed new one is worth thinking about.
Keel boat/dinghy courses are more appropriate to your situation IMHO.

 

[Dukester52]

In terms of training, based on your intended sailing grounds I'd go the Competent Crew/Day Skipper route. I initially took the Keelboat courses on the Norfolk Broads (great fun!) but moved over to Day Skipper etc and personally found it much more relevant to coastal sailing. I don't recall learning about navigation or navigation marks (passage planning, charts, standard buoyage etc) on the keelboat courses, but this is a big part of the Day Skipper theory courses. There are plenty of good online courses for the theory sections too.

Happy Sailing!

 

[Dukester52]

If it helps, I've dug out the advice the RYA gave me when I asked them the question re: training (I'd done the Keelboat courses, and had just bought my first 20ft Hurley)

"Thank you for your email.

"If you are planning to get into yachting and considering coastal trips, then the Cruising Scheme would better prepare you for this as it has all the background in navigation, meteorology, chartwork, passage planning etc that you would need.

"If you are only planning on using a small yacht inland for pottering around by day then the National Sailing Scheme courses should be sufficient, although you may want to consider the Essential Navigation and Seamanship course to give you some theory background for tidal sailing - if you feel you need more you can always go on to take the DaySkipper theory."

 

[coveman]

Trailer sailors tend to fit into two categories - those that can be trailed for a days sailing, and those that can be trailed but due to their size/weight etc are really only suitable for trailing to a mooring/marina where they stay for the season, or, for say a weeks holiday. A lightweight boat such as a Drascombe would fall into the former category where as a boat such as mine ( Etap22i) would fall into the latter.
Do not underestimate the time it takes to trail /rig/launch/derig/trail home.
The main advantage to me of a trailer sailor is that it can be kept at home during the winter and that is a very convenient place to do any repairs or maintenance plus I am not paying storage charges.

Another two factors to take into account when buying a secondhand boat are;-

1) The trailer - is it in roadworthy condition and suitable for the boat? Many older boats which maybe in good condition frequently come with an old trailer which can cost a lot to resurrect or replace
2) Engine - inboard or outboard? Is this in good condition? A replacement inboard could cost as much as the boat is worth.

Just a few points to ponder but in my experience, important ones.