Trader 50, has any one got any experience of this boat.

[Gludy]

In actual fact Andy you solved the fuel plumbing problem after they denied one for 6 months. I asked you to take a look and you sat there and figured out how one tank was being drained about 4 times faster than the other. The result was they had to do some new plumbing as it was even breaking CE standards!!!!


I can understand the mags not running with this but i really do not like reading about the new 64 etc. I feel that Trader do not have customers they have victims - its that simple.

 

[benjenbav]

Just to add my two pennorth for the benefit of anyone who might think Gludy is making a fuss unnecessarily. I haven't either met him or seen the boat in question but andyball helped me enormously with mine and he definitely knows what he is talking about!

Andy probably won't ever forget spending two of the hottest days of the summer wedged in the space between my starboard engine and the hull, identifying and replacing a faulty battery charger and generally tidying up the electrics. Thanks again Andy.

 

[Gludy]

Andy was also a great help to me throughout the saga at Emsworth.

We establisged a sort of pattern:-

Andy come up with a possible problem

Trader deny it

Further investigation

Trade deny it.

No choice in front of their eyets prrof

trade say 'well maybe'

wait two months

Trader agree or just hope you forget.

he was not popular in Emsworth!!

he is a great guy and was a great help.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

gludy, I'm shocked that you could experience these kinds of serious problems with what should be a quality product and I'm not surprised that you're apoplectic about them. I find Trader's attitude to be beyond disgraceful and I hope you take them to the cleaners and that one of the mags is brave enough to publish the story

 

[Gludy]

I am being represented by Chris Fairfax, so it may well get a write up when its over.

The treatment by Trader has almost become something you learn to live. As an example this is the first paragraph of my last email sent this weekend:-

"As months roll by without you even responding to my list of problems. Without you even finishing the jobs you stated last July, without you even bothering to respond to the survey that I had carried out, yet another significant problem has developed that once again makes the boat un-seaworthy.
............................ "

No matter what I write like that Trader just basically ignore it, cherry pick what they will even answer and then carry on with their total lack of respect ..... it is that mind boggling!

I have learnt to put it in a box now, so that it does not bother me too much - and I know the legal process can take some time but I will see it through. I will also be publishing the entire story on the new web site that I am launching that will provide good or bad feedback for any boats. So in the end Trader will be accountable for what they have done and continue to do. I also beleive I have cost them sales - one for certain was my next boat but there are a few others.

What does bother me is getting the boat in state to be used and so I am forced to spend a lot of time just to ensure that.

All this from me who was totally pro Trader in public on this forum before the boat arrived - they have managed to turn all that pro Trader feeling into one of almost total despair of them They totally spoilt any joy in buying the new £1m boat. Frankly they do not give a monkeys about it ....... incredible but true. This was their LIBS boat which by the way came back from Libs with two damaged cushions that they have stated they will replace and it is now ten months later - no replacement so I suggest no one else lend them their boat for their shows. When I ask when they ordered the new seats or when they are due in - they simply do not answer the question. Totally amazing.

 

[BrendanS]

have you considered getting someone independent to be middle man to sort issues. Ships Cat would be ideal.

 

[Gludy]

Brendan
You simply do not understand - Trader do not answer. I would have readily agreed to any rational independent person sorting it out but there would be no chance on the other side. The tactic is to tire you out until you just go away and do the work yourself!

Litigation was the very last thing I wanted but I really am left with no choice.

I had a surveyor carry out a very full survey unveiling terrible faults like the keel - they simply refused to respond to the survey or any points from it.

Having met others who have suffered at their hands, this is clearly how they operate.

Since July when the did their last visit, almost every week I have listed out the problems to them and asked for them to state which ones they accept, which ones they reject and which ones they wish to discuss - they refuse to even answer that! I think they intend to come and just do a few of the jobs and then go away without ever responding to any points.

The balance sheet of the company show a company worth about £300k BUT the stock is round that level and the stock has not been seen by the auditor, so even that value is unaudited - so in effect they are selling boat likes the new Trader 64 at about £1.6m worth more than 5 times what the company at the most is worth!!! I will always check balance sheets in future! by boat is worth 3 to 4 times what they are worth. ...... one of the legal reasons I chose not to reject the boat.

Lesson - never buy a product from someone where the product costs many times what the company selling it is worth!!!

They do promise to answer the list but since July 18th they have not done so. So how can we have someone mediate with an attitude like that?

 

[BrendanS]

I'll let shipscat amswer that one. I suspect he'd be worth the cost, he's the only forumite that scares me! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Gludy]

Brendan - you are still missing the point - cost does not come into it - this is not a dispute as such its one party refusing to even respond making any sort of mediation not possible.

The issues really are black and white.

Eg two cushions damaged at boat show January 2006 Trader told me in email they would replace- ten months later not replaced.

Eg large holes awn into side of boat to incorporate new baffles Trader had forgot to put in - work left incomplete for 4 months

Eg. Trader refuse to discuss points coming out of Survey.

This is not a dispute between two parties trying to reach an agreement - its one party acting in an extreme manner.

People around me like Andy Ball could not believe how calm I stayed in the face of extremes - so it is not about minor little points.

There are bout 70 problems left to be put right - some are so basic like the bunk that could never be used because any adult would break it and fall onto the floor from a height because its only supported by its hinge and about 1/16th inch of wooden batten. Trader agreed it is dangerous but that was many months ago and I am not even given a plan as to when they will do it or if they will do it.

I know it all sounds extreme but it is really even worse than I have so far informed the forum.

Last year at this time I was plotting the boat on its journey to Southampton – never thought I would be in such a mess a year later.

 

[BrendanS]

He's a boating trouble shooter, I'd at the least PM him with a list of problems. He might have an idea or two on how to handle this

 

[longjohnsilver]

Oh dear, someone I know has recently ordered a Trader 42 and has agreed to let it be shown at SIBS next year. Looks like he may live to regret it!

 

[Gludy]

In a simple word YES, if my experience plus the experience of everyone who I have met on the subject is anything to go by, I am afraid that much of my experience is common. I am in now way victimised - IMHO they treat all the same, like rubbish.

I fell for the boat show after refusing because I was told that Drumbeat had Pre-Osmosis and needed £15k treatement. I felt sorry for them so agreed. I was amazed because Drumbeat's hull was always super dry with the same moisture content as the super structure. In the event after the show my partner saw Drumbeat back in the water - they claimed to have done the treatment in 4 days flat!!!! Fastest Osmosis treatment in history. When she told me that I began to realise the situation I was now in.

Also, I would ve very wary of those new boats because they are beijng built in China, in a new yard. The lack of supervision in the long established yard beggars belief with screwing down 700 hp thrust into an empty box section, in fitting water maker tight up against a bulkhead such that not a single control can be operated or dial seen, in fitting a fluxgate under a 17 kw generator, in fitting the wrong seals to gearboxes, in extending a keel with rubbish such that it just crumbles, in forgetting to fit cowls so that salt water is actually directed into the engine room roof, in even fitting tear drop skin fitting backwards ........ but that and hundreds of other faults are from the good experienced yard supervised by a Trader Naval Architect who also supervises the new 64. not from a totally new yard in China that has even lower costs.

I would be more than happy to help your friend if he wants any advice ... just PM me for a telephone number.

I am really not exaggerting about all this, in fact, I am holding back on a lot of it. My situation could not be worse.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Rather difficult to broach it with him, after all he's just placed the order for an expensive boat, both he and his wife are very excited by it, they already have an older trader which they like and have enjoyed for 5 years or more. It's not really for me to spoil the dream. Nor is it really any of my business.
I just hope it works out better for them than it has for you.

 

[Gludy]

Yes I understand that.

I know of a number of happy second hand Trader owners who are happy - their boats are sorted. I will get mine sorted one day - its the long frustrating path to that whilst Trader treat you like dirt that is so annoying. The common problem is with new boats. I have yet to meet anyone who has dealt with Emsworth who is happy about it be they new or secondhand. I am sure some happy second hand cutomers must be around though. I know of a number who are happy to deal with Trader Yachts Wales in Penarth.... they run a decent operation with honour.

I have spoken to a number who not knowing my story express the very same sentiments as myself, indeed I know of other legal actions. I am thinking of forming not so much a Trader User group but a Trader Victims Support Group with discounts on anger management courses etc.

Just be there to support your friend when he needs it - I woukld be amazed if he does not need that support.