Towing - why do I bother!

[longjohnsilver]

Going into Salcombe a few weeks back got stuck behind a yacht who was stopped between the rocks in the entrance with a flooding tide. He called me over to say his rudder was seized and asked for a tow, no problem says I, have you got a suitable tow rope? He held up a bit of polyprop string about 2 metres long which I wouldn't even use to tow an inflatable toy let alone a 35' yacht. So now had to rummage in my locker for suitable length of rope, pass it to him, drifting nearer to the bleedin rocks, (I was single handed and he had a crew!!), then towed him into the harbour with difficulty as his rudder had seized to starboard. As you can probably imagine, Salcombe on a summer Saturday afternoon is a wee bit busy and two boats coming in almost side by side caused a few problems, so much so that I called the harbour patrol and asked them to come and take over as I couldn't see any free mooring buoys and manouvering was virtually impossible. Was instructed by them to cast off the tow rope and I went and anchored expecting to see rescued skipper return with my rope in his dinghy. WRONG!!!

I didn't see a name on his boat, and it disappeared amongst the moorings, waited an hour or so and nothing happened, he saw me anvchor, so I called up the harbour patrol who said they'd collect my roipe and return it which they did with a message from the other skipper that he'd buy me a drink in the bar later if he saw me!! Fat chance of that!!! There must be dozens of bars in salcombe and thousands of drinkers. I certainly wouldn't have recognised him and neither him me, not unless he had my coil of rope around his neck!! Not even a word of thanks for putting my boat at risk to help him out, and I'd have lost my tow rope if I hadn't asked the harbour patrol to retrieve it for me.

Because I have a traditional blue hulled semi displacement motor boat doesn't mean I have to play the part of a pilot or tug boat. Would I do the same again, yes of course, but it does amaze me as to the lack of decency shown by some fellow seafarers.

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[ccscott49]

It's always the same, some are grateful, some aren't. some people are so embarrased, they try to hide. I don't expect anything and I'm rarely disappointed. But not having any rope aboard is just bloody ridiculous, criminal in fact! It's getting about time we did have some kind of inspection of boats. Local harbourmaster or something along those lines. You should have claimed salvage, he asked you for a tow and used your warp! at least you would have got a drink out of the tight git! Make sure next time you at least get the boat name.

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[jimi]

Pity you did'nt get the boats name cos my understanding is that the yacht skipper having asked for help and accepted your rope you have a valid case for salvage!

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[tcm]

Re: The going rate for towing in

I think the reasonable decent going rate for a tow-in from a reasonable distance outside a harbour to vaguley inside a harbour is two bottles of nice-ish wine within an hour of landing: the towee shold not have to be prompted, and they have to arrange to get it sent over, and of course bring any ropes back to the tow-er at the same time. It's two bottles because if you met anyone anyway they might bring one bottle, or you might open a bottle, so two bottles is a proper thankyou.

Out of my three towing-in, only one has observed the above rule (a nutcase 90mph boat ) the other two (one raggie, one powerboat) followed the same recent poor example as LJS's story above.


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[chas]

Very sad. If I give someone a tow, I don't expect anything in return but a "thank you" is nice. Something from the dim and distant past is stirring in my brain - can't you claim salvage if you provide the tow rope?

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[tcm]

\"Valid case for salvage\"

I disagree. Whilst it is true that accepting the lines from another boat can contribute towards a case for salvage, I am fairly sure that the overriding feature of a valid salvage case is that the rescuer should have put their own life in peril as part of the process whilst making the rescue.

Nonetheless, it is a good idea, before taking another's line that you call out to the other boat with a witness "Do you waive all salvage rights against this boat?" and then the payment reverts to a sliding scale of bottles/cases of nice wine/malt.

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[ccscott49]

Re: \"Valid case for salvage\"

I'm not sure about the life at peril bit, do salvage tug skippers/crew put their lives at peril, most of the ones I know won't!

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[burgundyben]

On saturday a mate called, wanted to borrow the dinghy to do some fishing on the last hour of the flood, so we went to hte boat, I did a load of scrubbing decks and stuff cos she was looking a mess and he sat in the dinghy and fished.

A wayfarer dinghy went past and got itself caught on his tackle (fishing), later on, the wind died I offered the wayfarer a tow back to thier sailing club, grabbed their bow line and off we went, after about 30 secs I was tapped on the shoulder, he had pulled himself along the bow line and was tapping me on the shoulder with a bottle of beer. Jolly decent chap.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sod the Healey - I think I'll buy an E-Type.

 

[jimi]

Re: \"Valid case for salvage\"

Do'nt think that's the case. Whilst hesitating to suggest that the lead pipes in the soon to be knocked down house may be interfering with the clarity of your thought processes (pause for breath) , you may be getting confused with the condition often attached to charter agreements saying that a tow (leading to the risk of a salvage claim) should only be accepted if life or the vessel is in peril? I know that I've been told to always refuse a towers offer of a tow rope and proffer my own for that very reason, and if poss get a signature saying two bottles of wine is the agreed fee. Maybe one of our legal eagles can give us some guidance here?


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[Rob_Webb]

Re: "Valid case for salvage"

A number of factors apply in determining salvage rights and the level of danger to the salvor is only one factor in calculating a reasonable fee for the service. The crux is whether a "useful result" has been achieved and I reckon that getting a crew from a stricken boat off a rocky harbour entrance into a bar counts as a result!

CHAPTER III

RIGHTS OF SALVORS

Article 12

Conditions for reward

1. Salvage operations which have had a useful result give right to a reward.

2. Except as otherwise provided, no payment is due under this Convention if the salvage operations have had no useful result.

3. This chapter shall apply, notwithstanding that the salved vessel and the vessel undertaking the salvage operations belong to the same owner.

Article 13

Criteria for fixing the reward

1. The reward shall be fixed with a view to encouraging salvage operations, taking into account the following criteria without regard to the order in which they are presented below:

(a) the salved value of the vessel and other property;

(b) the skill and efforts of the salvors in preventing or minimizing damage to the environment;

(c) the measure of success obtained by the salvor;

(d) the nature and degree of the danger;

(e) the skill and efforts of the salvors in salving the vessel, other property and life;

(f) the time used and expenses and losses incurred by the salvors;

(g) the risk of liability and other risks run by the salvors or their equipment;

(h) the promptness of the services rendered;

(i) the availability and use of vessels or other equipment intended for salvage operations;

(j) the state of readiness and efficiency of the salvor's equipment and the value thereof.

2. Payment of a reward fixed according to paragraph 1 shall be made by all of the vessel and other property interests in proportion to their respective salved values. However, a State Party may in its national law provide that the payment of a reward has to be made by one of these interests, subject to a right of recourse of this interest against the other interests for their respective shares. Nothing in this article shall prevent any right of defence.

3. The rewards, exclusive of any interest and recoverable legal costs that may be payable thereon, shall not exceed the salved value of the vessel and other property.



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[IanBry]

Re: \"Valid case for salvage\"

Not sure which I find worse...

i) Benefitting from a tow from a helpfull seafarer and not having the decency to say thanks/buy a bottle.

ii) Investigating salvage rights for giving somebody a tow into harbour.

Whatever happened to 'a good deed is it's own reward'?

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[chas]

Re: \"Valid case for salvage\"

I think that the only certain way of getting salvage is to get the victim to sign the "Lloyds Open Form". I used to have yo carry one of these. One hears stories of ships in the past drifting onto the rocks with the captain steadfastly refusing to sign the form which the potential salvor is waving in front of his face.

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[tcm]

Re: \"Valid case for salvage\"

I agree it is distasteful. But the fact that LJS confirms that of course he will give a tow again shows he is made of the right stuff. Of course, I would too.

In spain, another poster hereabouts and I saw a scenario developed where a boat at anchor, owner on the beach out of sight, had been "rescued" and boat reanchored a little further away (actually claimed they had found it out at sea - but with an onshore breeze...) with several burly people claiming salvage on board. Police called and went to talk them round, returned to say look, all they want is "recognition" (ie a thousand quid, say) but of course my mate refused. Took several hours to talk them off. So I am afraid the bad stuff happens.

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[ccscott49]

Re: \"Valid case for salvage\"

I realise it's not very nice asking for salvage, or expecting payment for helping somebody out, (I never have) but at least the man could have brought the rope back, which was his salvation, instead of the harbour launch having to do it, and said thank you, bloody hell it's not much to ask or expect! This is the reason peeps were investigating the salvage option, but lJS never mentioned it, other people did, just as an aside. in this case the good deed was his only reward. It's a good job it wasn't me, or I would have gone and said something in front of everybody around and really embarassed him! So never accept a tow from me.

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[jimi]

Re: \"Valid case for salvage\"

Others might find the info about offering your own rope useful when it comes to dealing with the bad guys. Doubt if anyone I know would even consider a salvage claim (apart from Rene Trembler of the Barque Surcouf) although I'm sure they would go out their way to help anyone. On the other hand if they were aided I'm sure vast quantitities of alchohol and olives would be sent by the aidee to the aforesaid aider ... not AIDA of course which has only recently finished a long run in Schevingen

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[IanBry]

Re: \"Valid case for salvage\"

That I have no argument with.

And as for embarrassing him - not a problem either. My point was just because someone acts like an ungratefull ar$e doesn't mean we all should behave as though nobody is worth helping.

I personally would have been pretty damn annoyed if someone had taken a tow and then nicked my rope (which he more or less did by not trying to return it)

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[IanBry]

Re: \"Valid case for salvage\"

As would I

I'd rather watch my ship go down than be 'saved' by someone who would only do so once payment had been recieved. If someone would watch a stranded ship washed onto the rocks because they weren't guaranteed payment it says far more about them than the reluctant skipper.

But then maybe I'm just tight cos I'm Scottish! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[GeorgeP]

Sorry to hear of your treatment.

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[Peppermint]

Re: Typical

Of the 5 or 6 tows I've given only one came over to say thank you and he brought a bottle of bubbles. He was a serious racing man who, having had a bit of gear failure during the race, had lost the fleet. "One of them would have given me a tow" he stated. "They know I don't carry enough diesel". It turned out he took lightening his boat for racing very seriously.

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[longjohnsilver]

Salvage

As others have said I think you can only claim salvage if you save vessel and occupants from iminent danger/death. As a matter of principle I cannot envisage any time I would consider making such a claim, but i do get bloody annoyed when no thanks are proffered. A bottle or two of something would be an added bonus and that's the least I would do if I was given a tow, but I do not expect it.

I'm just astounded by the blokes ignorance, he could have been in real trouble if I'd not stopped to help.

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