toilet tactics - be honest

[Refueler]

During a talk at the club this spring we were told that the washing up liquid we happily let drain to the sea from our sinks actually does far more environmental damage than the output from the loos. Common sense if you think about it. But I do know which I would rather be swimming in!
So is the conscience about loo output logical environmentally, or should we not worry about it?

True. Even 'Biodegradable' is more damaging than a richard or a pee !

How many here would squirt a bit of washing up liquid at a diesel or oil smear on the water ? That act causes more damage to environment than leaving the oil smear to itself.

Personally I have a direct to sea only loo. My boat would have problem finding place to fit a holding tank. I don't use in port other than a pee at night-time.......

 

[emandvee44]

toilet tactics - honest reply

We ‘inherited’ a tek-tanks holding tank arrangement in the forward heads when we purchased our boat last year. It was a retrofit by the first owner and has the full options package – i.e. loo can discharge either directly to sea or to the holding tank. Holding tank can be pumped out either to sea or to shore.

The pipework and diverter valves looked a bit complicated and therefore to avoid operational errors I labelled all the pipes and made a diagram of the whole arrangement which is posted on the inside of the access door (to the valves). Intensive crew training followed (just ‘dry runs’).

In harbour/marina/anchorages, the valves are set to ‘holding tank’ and we allow use of the loo for anything, although going ashore for the big ones is the first option if conditions permit.

If the holding tank becomes full we will go offshore (on the ebb of course), and discharge the tank.

If sailing offshore the valves are set to ‘discharge to sea’ and before entering harbour back to ‘discharge to holding tank’. (the pre arrival check list includes this item)

We also adopt the Greek system of only allowing bodily products into the loo (and thus the holding tank), which is ok if you are set up for it with special bags/receptacles etc. It also helps a lot to avoid blockages!

We are planning to have a second holding tank installed during the winter so that both heads can be used in port, and which we will need in the Med. anyway (next year hopefully).

Michael.

 

[Refueler]

I don't understand this no paper in loo by some ... having gone through the Soviet latter period and bins by the bogs for paper to be put in ... I certainly do not want that on my boat.
Sensible paper bought is fully capable of passing through any on-board loo. Just don't buy the hard "Council Loo" style or the real comfy 3 layer stuff. Tesco Economy or similar is fine. It breaks up in the water when pumped ...
Also just make sure that peeps understand to 'flush' at intervals during the 'wipe-process' so you don't have an excessive amount of paper to deal with in one go ...

Simple really.

 

[ninky]

During a talk at the club this spring we were told that the washing up liquid we happily let drain to the sea from our sinks actually does far more environmental damage than the output from the loos. Common sense if you think about it. But I do know which I would rather be swimming in!
So is the conscience about loo output logical environmentally, or should we not worry about it?

i don't have a sink on board, so washing up is done in the cockpit with either no liquid or just a tiny drop of ecover or similar on the sponge.

i worry about liveaboards who don't move from the mooring. where does their waste and waste water all go?

 

[DownWest]

Was it here that I saw a proper PBO solution? A porter potty fitted with a skin fitting and a hand pump with high loop, so it could be emptied from time to time via another fitting in the hull. Cheap and practical. Needed a small pedestal to raise it so the elbow was in the bottom face of the tank.
A

 

[Evadne]

We've a similar set up to emandvee44, but no shore pump out arrangement. I fitted it about 3 or 4 years ago now, we use it in harbours or marinas for discharges that contain loo paper. It persists longer than the human waste. I take the point about bacteria, but if it were a problem, cholera and typhoid would have been endemic to Yarmouth and Bembridge for the last few decades.
We pump out when well away from harbours/beaches, it has lasted three days on a non-marina berth, but you get a bit judicious with how much water you flush with towards the end of day three. Anyone know of a reliable level sensor?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

An alternative!

How about one of these (http://www.storburn.ca/info.html)??

This (http://www.usenburn.ca/) could actually be a practical possibility - 12v electricity + diesel. However, the bit about not using it too soon after an incineration cycle is a bit off-putting! There is another one that would be interesting if it didn't require mains electricity at 15 amps.

 

[Evadne]

Three thousand eight hundred dollars for a loo?? Not to mention the 100 pound propane cylinder! This isn't the RRS JCR you know.

 

[Ken_Irby]

"Be Honest"?

i don't know how many people who pump out everywhere are going to reply to this! all you will get is the "holier than thou" brigade. last place we saw a significant number of people swimming was in lakka on paxos last week. i wonder how many know that the town's sewer runs straight in to the bay near the ferry berth - which is why those in the nkow never swim not berth on the quay in that place. people may not like the thought but **** is a natural substance and if you've ever visited port leone on kalamos, you will see many goats defurcating on the rocks and the droppings falling into the water. should we advocate nappies for goats? socially undesireable yes and to be discouraged whenever possible but grey waste from shampoo and sun-tan creams is FAR more damaging to the environment and the fauna.
Chas on Kentrina's login therefore not necessarily her views

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Three thousand eight hundred dollars for a loo?? Not to mention the 100 pound propane cylinder! This isn't the RRS JCR you know.

You're forgetting the need for a chimney as well

Actually, we use this one at a deep field site called Sky-Blu - it's an ice runway and not a lot else.

It's called the "Rocket Loo", and I understand it can only be operated by qualified people - despite what the web-site says!

More seriously, the other one I mention does actually sound possible!

 

[Ubergeekian]

During a talk at the club this spring we were told that the washing up liquid we happily let drain to the sea from our sinks actually does far more environmental damage than the output from the loos. Common sense if you think about it. But I do know which I would rather be swimming in!
So is the conscience about loo output logical environmentally, or should we not worry about it?

About the worst (commonly available) thing you can put into the sea is milk: a single pint will deoxygenate a VAST amount of seawater.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I have two loos (Ooh get you!!!!) One is to a holding tank that is never pumped until at sea. The other is direct but only used when underway. It's obvious from this thread that some people still don't get it and think they can discharge untreated sewage into marinas and inland waters.

Just like cows, sheeps, seals and fish, then?

Mind you, anyone who discharges solids into a marina or anchorage should be liable to sanctions up to and including torpedos.

 

[nathanlee]

how many boat users actually use their holding tank when in marinas / harbours and how many just flush out to sea?

I'm notorious for being a bit too honest in these matters, but I don't see why I shouldn't be, so here goes.

If in a marina, I'll pee in a bucket at night and tip it overboard come morning. I'll always visit the facilities for anything other than a number 1.

When at sea, I pee over the leeward rail, or if it's rough, in the cockpit. Apt name eh.

Unless absolutely desperate, a number 2 will wait until I get somewhere where I can sit in peace and read the paper.

 

[Evadne]

When I started sailing my own boat, first at Rye and then on the Blackwater, the gents' urinal was the leeward shrouds. Kneeling down if it were rough. The loo was for sitting down jobs only, but flushed straight out to sea in the usual manner.

I now sail around the Solent, and when you're sitting in the cockpit in an enclosed harbour or marina with dozens or hundreds of similarly occupied boats in close proximity, a holding tank becomes a good idea. It seems like the civilised way to do things in a crowded world.

 

[ninky]

I'm notorious for being a bit too honest in these matters, but I don't see why I shouldn't be, so here goes.

If in a marina, I'll pee in a bucket at night and tip it overboard come morning. I'll always visit the facilities for anything other than a number 1.

When at sea, I pee over the leeward rail, or if it's rough, in the cockpit. Apt name eh.

Unless absolutely desperate, a number 2 will wait until I get somewhere where I can sit in peace and read the paper.

not good form to keep your number 2s waiting i think - better out than in. peeing over the side is easier for blokes - involves major mooning and thighs of steel for us gals. i used to pee in the engine well in the cockpit but since we got a short shaft outboard that's no longer an option.

no one got a nature's head then? they sound like a good option.

 

[Pete7]

i don't know how many people who pump out everywhere are going to reply to this! all you will get is the "holier than thou" brigade.

Oh dear, why do I have the feeling I am about to be ex-communicated from the forum . However in our defence we use shore side facilities as often as possible. Having to take the dog ashore encourages you to make use of the facilities at the same time. It is on our list of things we need to do.

I think the Norfolk broads has seen a huge improvement in water quality since they insisted on holding tanks for hire boats.

Pete

 

[ninky]

Having to take the dog ashore encourages you to make use of the facilities at the same time.

Pete

That reminds me. I was wondering how sea dogs manage - especially those on mooring buoys or on long voyages. Where on earth (or deck) do THEY go?

With regards the environment, I guess it's quantity and density that is the issue. A human poo or two off the west coast of scotland is fine. But in Portsmouth harbour it really isn't. There's already algae overgrowth issues and raw sewage is only going to make matters worse.

here's a link to the air head (called nature's head for obvious reasons in uk) http://www.airheadtoilet.com/

smell free, no pumping out and creates garden friendly compost.

 

[fireball]

A human poo or two off the west coast of scotland is fine. But in Portsmouth harbour it really isn't.

Not quite sure I understand the logic of this ... it's Ok to Poo in Scotland, but not in Pompey ... is that because there is enough cr4p in pompey already?

Ok - I can quite agree that you want to limit how much raw sewerage you put into the sea, and in enclosed areas less is better - but it is a matter of % volume ... and one or two ain't gonna make a difference to the volume of water in Pompey ...

 

[Pete7]

That reminds me. I was wondering how sea dogs manage - especially those on mooring buoys or on long voyages. Where on earth (or deck) do THEY go?

He tells us, normally at first light with a wet nose to your face. Suprising how effective that can be waking you up. We have only had one accident on a long trip and he went in the cockpit having seen me pee over the side. He looked very sheepish so gave him a hug and said it was okay.

Otherwise Alderney is a convienent, they sell duty free too

 

[ninky]

Not quite sure I understand the logic of this ... it's Ok to Poo in Scotland, but not in Pompey ... is that because there is enough cr4p in pompey already?

Ok - I can quite agree that you want to limit how much raw sewerage you put into the sea, and in enclosed areas less is better - but it is a matter of % volume ... and one or two ain't gonna make a difference to the volume of water in Pompey ...

yeah but one or two from every boat user in a busy harbour WILL make a difference. it's like pooing in the middle of a forest is not going to make a difference but pooing in a city park will.