NormanS
Well-Known Member
Two better ways to keep the outlet pipes clear are:
1. Adequate pumping, so that no trace of urine is left in the pipe. Jabsco recommend 7strokes per metre of pipe.
2. Brick Cleaner containing hydrochloric acid.
Toilet, how to get the seawater out of the inlet pipe
- Thread starter simonfraser
- Start date
Two better ways to keep the outlet pipes clear are:
1. Adequate pumping, so that no trace of urine is left in the pipe. Jabsco recommend 7strokes per metre of pipe.
2. Brick Cleaner containing hydrochloric acid.
GHA
Well-Known Member
Quick rough test..
Some scale off the inside of an old pipe,
Left tin is vinegar from the bottle, a few little bubbles but not much.
Right tin is aqua fuerte - 24% hydrochloric acid diluted rough 3:1, so about 8% maybe - all scale dissolved within a few minutes.
No idea what 8% odd acid would do to any plastic along the way.
Some scale off the inside of an old pipe,
Left tin is vinegar from the bottle, a few little bubbles but not much.
Right tin is aqua fuerte - 24% hydrochloric acid diluted rough 3:1, so about 8% maybe - all scale dissolved within a few minutes.
No idea what 8% odd acid would do to any plastic along the way.
mattnj
Well-Known Member
I found leaving the inlet seacock open fixed the bad smell....
must circulate around by itself from the skin fitting....doesn't smell....seems trapping it in the pipe causes the problem....
I'm not really worried about having a sea cock open....what is the worst than can happen :ambivalence:
must circulate around by itself from the skin fitting....doesn't smell....seems trapping it in the pipe causes the problem....
I'm not really worried about having a sea cock open....what is the worst than can happen :ambivalence:
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Well, when the vinegar is first put into the bowl it fizzes quite strongly and any build up on the porcelain can be cleared with a normal toilet brush very easily after half an hour.
I am sure if the outlet pipe has a significant internal coating of build up the vinegar will only affect the surface layer and so may take a long time to clear it, if in fact it can do so.
But, knowing the history of our current boat, little used and half its life in fresh water with the toilet not used I dont believe we have significant build up in the pipe and five litres of white vinegar a year is worth the punt.
The Island Packet owners forum has plenty of satisfied vinegar users, so I have joined them.
It is quite amazing how easily the build up is removed from the bowl after even a short soak, so yes, it works.
GHA
Well-Known Member
Not the stuff I just tried, slight bubble for a moment when first applied then lumps just sitting there.
Not sure how to brush the pipe...
Luckily aqua fuerte is cheap and easy to find round here. It definitely works, maybe a bit too well if you're not careful..
Hydrozoan
Well-Known Member
I believe Vyv Cox too (amongst others) happily uses hydrochloric acid to dissolve outlet limescale, and is content that in a short period it does his plumbing no harm – but do search for his posts regarding the concentration he uses. He was right in an earlier thread – and I was wrong (stupidly, for a chemist!) – about the speed of action being very much greater than that of acetic acid (vinegar), but I believe that an equivalent amount (in chemical terms) of acetic acid would get there in time too. It would take more calculation than I am prepared to put into it to check my belief, and certainly hydrochloric acid will do the job in shorter order – but do check the concentration employed, and of course take care.
On the original subject, I have been interested in the evidence, confirming the view I expressed, of a brief H2S odour occurring in an engine intake and in a heads devoid of faecal matter, and its avoidance by leaving the inlet seacock open. Much more direct evidence than an experiment incubating organic-rich seawater, and which will I hope have convinced any doubters. I would personally not like to leave the seacock open for an extended time to address a brief pong, when one could live with it or use other ways (described above) of dealing with it, but each to his own!
On the original subject, I have been interested in the evidence, confirming the view I expressed, of a brief H2S odour occurring in an engine intake and in a heads devoid of faecal matter, and its avoidance by leaving the inlet seacock open. Much more direct evidence than an experiment incubating organic-rich seawater, and which will I hope have convinced any doubters. I would personally not like to leave the seacock open for an extended time to address a brief pong, when one could live with it or use other ways (described above) of dealing with it, but each to his own!
Mistroma
Well-Known Member
+1
Exactly system I use. Agua Fuerte only added infrequently just in case, I expect sufficient pumping removes most of the problem wrt calcification in outlet side. I never see any sign of calcification on valves or inside of hose end when dismantling for maintenance (infrequently).
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ashtead
Well-Known Member
Have followed with interest and having changed our Jabsco valves recently and put a block in strainer now minded to change inlet pipe. Leaving aside the aspects of removing and refitting a new pipe which pipe do furumites recommend ? .Currently we have a clear inlet pipe fitted as standard and wondered if removal and replacement might assist in addressing the opening seacock smell issue ?
RichardS
N/A
The Seaflow Butyl pipe sold by ASAP is very good. I replace all my sanitation hose with it a couple of years ago.
Richard
FulmarJeddo
Well-Known Member
I have come into this discussion a bit late. When I bought my boat 7 years ago, there was no smell at all. After about a year the pump went a bit stiff and I had the bad smell. I thoroughly cleaned the pump and greased it with silicon grease and haven't had the rotten egg smell since.
Various people have their views of where the smell comes from, but on my boat it was definitely cross contamination in the pump.
ashtead
Well-Known Member
Thank you Richard for that . Have dealt with ASAP before and found them reliable so will follow up. I also need a racnor filter so might do a combined order .
GHA
Well-Known Member
Update in vinegar -
After about a day the scale hasn't dissolved in the vinegar, but it has changed into something brown and soft. Whatever that something is won't dissolve when moved into the diluted agua fuerte, a new lump of scale dissolves in the agua fuerte in minute or two.
Vinegar on the left.
After about a day the scale hasn't dissolved in the vinegar, but it has changed into something brown and soft. Whatever that something is won't dissolve when moved into the diluted agua fuerte, a new lump of scale dissolves in the agua fuerte in minute or two.
Vinegar on the left.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Lets get back to first base.
The "rotten egg" smell is the degraded seawater left in the inlet pipe.
The only way to get rid of it is to pump it into and subsequently out of the bowl. The smell occurs during this operation.
Transference by leaky valves of evacuated matter from human toilet activity is a completly different scenario and would have a different and easier to identify smell.
IMHO,of course, but based on direct experience.
The "rotten egg" smell is the degraded seawater left in the inlet pipe.
The only way to get rid of it is to pump it into and subsequently out of the bowl. The smell occurs during this operation.
Transference by leaky valves of evacuated matter from human toilet activity is a completly different scenario and would have a different and easier to identify smell.
IMHO,of course, but based on direct experience.
RichardS
N/A
Lets get back to first base. Excellent
The "rotten egg" smell is the degraded seawater left in the inlet pipe. The inlet pipe and the inlet side of the pump assembly.
The only way to get rid of it is to pump it into and subsequently out of the bowl. The smell occurs during this operation. A definite no. The "urinal block" is 100% effective in getting rid of the smell. Other methods are also available.
Transference by leaky valves of evacuated matter from human toilet activity is a completly different scenario and would have a different and easier to identify smell. Another definite no, I'm afaid. Bacteriologically decomposed faecal matter in the absence of oxygen produces exactly the same smell.
IMHO,of course, but based on direct experience.
Richard
GHA
Well-Known Member
Took a while, but the hydrochloric acid managed to eat through the tuna tin..
Maybe not ideal on an aluminium boat...
Maybe not ideal on an aluminium boat...
FulmarJeddo
Well-Known Member
So why do some smell and some don't?
Hydrozoan
Well-Known Member
Probably because – in the absence of cross-contamination with the outlet side – some flushing waters (or the same waters but at different times of year) are higher in the natural organics which, when the inlet seacock is closed, provide food for the aerobic bacteria to deplete the oxygen and then for the anaerobic bacteria to produce H2S as they use sulfate in the seawater instead of oxygen.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
See my first reply-one of our boats had a 6 metre plus inlet pipe and always smelled when inlet and outlet seacocks were opened and the loo pumped.
The current boat has less than 1 metre of inlet pipe and is unnafected. Same mooring/sailing area, long term comparison.
My last two boats have used the exellent American Raritan sea toilets. Cross contamination has never occured.
My use of large quantities of white vinegar when leaving the boat-at least 2 litres, pumped until I am sure it is exiting the outlet seacock-keeps our bowl free of deposits and stains. It may, or may not keep the outlet pipe clear of build up, but many who use it in the USA confirm that it does.
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