Tohatsu MFS9.8A3 UL 9.8HP 4STR UL (£2,141.41p) in westerly centaur with dead engine

[JumbleDuck]

I would be very surprised if ten horse power were enough to power a Centaur.I had a ten horse power Mercury on a Kestrel that I used for years & it struggled at times.It's not just the horse power but the prop size & the low down grunt that a diesel produces that seems to make the difference.(I have a 10 HP Bukh in my Macwester 27 & it seems much more powerful).

I don't have a Centaur, but I have a boat of very similar size and displacement which goes fine with my 1GM10. And by "fine" I mean "flat out under power at a shade under 6kt, will still do 4kt into a 20kt headwind". Others may have higher expectations, but I'm happy with that.

 

[dylanwinter]

I don't have a Centaur, but I have a boat of very similar size and displacement which goes fine with my 1GM10. And by "fine" I mean "flat out under power at a shade under 6kt, will still do 4kt into a 20kt headwind". Others may have higher expectations, but I'm happy with that.

6 knots (hull speed) at half revs on the 6hp on Katie L

5 knots with the short shaft 2.3 Honda

so the sort of performance you describe would suite me fine

D

enginless centaur - 3,500

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/yachts/westerly-centaur-b-layout-RBY297

 

[john_morris_uk]

So, your idea, £5000 on the water. After a couple of years, £1000 for the engine and disposal costs for the, now totally unsaleable, Centaur.

I reckon you could have a Beta 13.5, self installed for a lot less work than building a well, for £4K (£4.5K max). After a couple of years a saleable Centaur worth probably £7K - £8K.

I know which one I'd go for.

I agree 100% but I am not sure Dylan does 'self installed'. I've installed new engines in two boats and had the engine out and rebuilt and reinstalled in our current one and would happily volunteer to help but we live in different parts of the country.

Dylan, I understand why you have caught 'inboard engine phobia' but the cure is life with a modern diesel that's under warranty!

 

[Daydream believer]

I recall a story of a Seagull Century outboard being used to push a 100 ft barge several miles along a canal.
Perhaps you should consider a different outboard
I also recall that the original Stella was meant to have an outboard hung over the side. Kim Holman sketched it with a 4 hp stuart Turner so Dickie Bird the owner stuck with that
Perhaps 2 small outboards - one each side. As the boat rolled one prop would always be in the water
Plus they would be easier to start being alongside the cockpit rather than over the stern
My first Silhouette had an outboard well but the vibration always caused leaks around the base of the well so you would need to be very careful about construction at that point

 

[AngusMcDoon]

thats as may be and a credit to japanese build quality. But how much are they worth now? I bet they would have depreciated heavily in the first 5 years.

I'm sure that is true - the same as anything mechanical, but so what? A boat is usually sold together with its engine, not as separate items.

 

[Paddingtonbear]

This is simply a mad idea Dylan and this is from someone is is seriously mad and a wooden boat owner.

I have no direct experience but consider the following

What would the insurance position be, I doubt it could be insured, esp if used for 'commercial' purposes
The costs and time to get the conversion right, do you have the skills as I doubt any professional would take the chance of any legal action. I have a feeling that they might be considered personally liable as I doubt again whether their PI insurance would stand it.
The effect of vibration and 'sea thump' on the modifications.
getting the ballast right
Your over estimate of the cost of knackered boat, I think one could be had for £2000 or perhaps a donation might be had ? from a boatyard want to get one out of the way.
Your over estimate of the cost of an engine, either the repair of the original or the purchase and fitting of a good secondhand one.
The costs of disposing of the wreck when the time comes, not inconsiderable I would not think.
The above are obviously over and above all the other points made.
The very best of luck with what ever you do, I think you are great. I have some interest in all this as I want you to carry on making your videos not pratting about with a Westerly.

 

[dylanwinter]

This is simply a mad idea Dylan and this is from someone is is seriously mad and a wooden boat owner.

I have no direct experience but consider the following

What would the insurance position be, I doubt it could be insured, esp if used for 'commercial' purposes
The costs and time to get the conversion right, do you have the skills as I doubt any professional would take the chance of any legal action. I have a feeling that they might be considered personally liable as I doubt again whether their PI insurance would stand it.
The effect of vibration and 'sea thump' on the modifications.
getting the ballast right
Your over estimate of the cost of knackered boat, I think one could be had for £2000 or perhaps a donation might be had ? from a boatyard want to get one out of the way.
Your over estimate of the cost of an engine, either the repair of the original or the purchase and fitting of a good secondhand one.
The costs of disposing of the wreck when the time comes, not inconsiderable I would not think.
The above are obviously over and above all the other points made.
The very best of luck with what ever you do, I think you are great. I have some interest in all this as I want you to carry on making your videos not pratting about with a Westerly.

bless you for calling me mad - you are in alignment with my wife and children

insurance - third party (as I have always been) so no problem

I have the skills - built several boats and also done a fair bit of GRP work

vibration.... not a problem - less vibration from a nicely balanced two cylinder outboard than a diesel I would gues

ballast is not a problem - I assume that one could get the boat back on her lines pretty easily - initially a few bags of gravel in the lockers as the members of the Humber Yawl club used to do

great news about the even cheaper boats

imagine a nice big safe Centaur with a reliable power unit for £4,000

I have walked the inboard repair line and lost 15 weeks of summer sailing ---

dealng with the slug inboard was so depressing. I am sure that a brand new inboard would be a lovely thing - but I drive £700 cars - not because I like £700 cars but because needs must

You all make the assumption that it will not work and the boat would be unsellable

In my garden I still have the Seawhych that at one time had one of those seagull inboards on a cockpit well

the problem with that was, as I understand it, not the idea but the power unit they used with it



When I win the lottery then for sure I will become very comnfortable with and inboard and the bills

but until then I shall be an outboard man

D

PS I hate to see a grown man cry

 

[chrisbitz]

I don't know nuffink about nuffink, but I'd like to say go for it, as Dylan seems to be clueful about all the objections, and the bottom line is, he may waste £4k, but I don't see how, unless the outboard drops through the floor, and the boat sinks.

Alternatively, he may get a centaur with an engine that (maybe) doesn't motor perfectly for £4k.

And the improvement of walking space down below over ktl's tent space is worth much more than that!

You could buy a nice centaur with good engine for £8k and have the rigging and mast snap in a month too. Everything's a gamble, and he's clearly an adventurous type

 

[greggron]

C'mon Dylan. Your intransigence in the face of post upon post of advice against your proposal demonstrates a decision based wholly on emotion into which you then seek to shoehorn some post hoc rationalisation. You have long harboured a desire for a centaur and it's clear your experience of the beast has left you with deep anxieties.

So let's stop the charade and encourage you to go ahead with your experiment. However it turns out we'll all be willing you on with well meaning criticism and teasing banter. Whatever the outcome it'll make interesting viewing.

When do you start?

 

[prv]

C'mon Dylan. Your intransigence in the face of post upon post of advice against your proposal demonstrates a decision based wholly on emotion into which you then seek to shoehorn some post hoc rationalisation. You have long harboured a desire for a centaur and it's clear your experience of the beast has left you with deep anxieties.

So let's stop the charade and encourage you to go ahead with your experiment.

+1

I think it's a mad idea but I still think you should do it

Pete

 

[dylanwinter]

C'mon Dylan. Your intransigence in the face of post upon post of advice against your proposal demonstrates a decision based wholly on emotion into which you then seek to shoehorn some post hoc rationalisation. You have long harboured a desire for a centaur and it's clear your experience of the beast has left you with deep anxieties.

So let's stop the charade and encourage you to go ahead with your experiment. However it turns out we'll all be willing you on with well meaning criticism and teasing banter. Whatever the outcome it'll make interesting viewing.

When do you start?

au contraire

I would say the negs to the positives are around eight to one on this thread

and given the level of negativity one might expect on this forum about anyone who even uses the wrong flag then that is not bad

as you can imagine over my slow journey around the UK I have had a lot of boat owners expend a lot of air telling me why I cannot/should not be doing something

rigs that will not work.....

boat too small

boat too big

lightly built duck punts that will not work - windows in punts that are bound to leak

engine wells don't work

what - just a hand held radio!

not enough charts

all I can say is - so far so good

 

[Nigel-in-Oxford]

When I was letting such thoughts rattle through my head, I thought of getting a boat with a sail-drive. Take out all the sail-drive gubbins and replace with a prefabricated outboard well to match the sail drive flange, put the engine in there. You may need a very long shaft, and remove the prop to fit in position.

 

[dylanwinter]

When I was letting such thoughts rattle through my head, I thought of getting a boat with a sail-drive. Take out all the sail-drive gubbins and replace with a prefabricated outboard well to match the sail drive flange, put the engine in there. You may need a very long shaft, and remove the prop to fit in position.

Tohatsu make a very long shaft

I want the prop just where the current prop is so all that - drive shaft and engine coming out

Thank you guys for forcing me to think this through as well

still yet to to receive the killer reason for not doing it

noise - bad - but I have lived with that for 18 months

fully comp insurance - out of the question on all my boats

structural strength - centaurs built like out houses and I can afford a fair amount of extra weight on structure - the hull looks strong around the prop area - you would need to be watertight and bring the forces generated back to the Hull

I think that some of you guys are underestimating the thrust from an outboard with the prop in the right place

your experience has been with outboards on the back of a boat just barely in the water

the well idea gets around this

 

[2nd_apprentice]

Well I'm sure Dylan knows this fellow: http://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/improvement-projects/249-outboard-1.html
Obviously it can be done and indeed my 30' is powered in the same way. The real problem however is where to buy fuel or how to store large amounts. Don't fancy a twenty minute walk to the next petrol station with jerry cans which is why I've been thinking of how to convert to an inboard diesel for quite some time now. Unfortunately not going to happen as I haven't got the 6-10K necessary to make it happen.

 

[dylanwinter]

Well I'm sure Dylan knows this fellow: http://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/improvement-projects/249-outboard-1.html
Obviously it can be done and indeed my 30' is powered in the same way. The real problem however is where to buy fuel or how to store large amounts. Don't fancy a twenty minute walk to the next petrol station with jerry cans which is why I've been thinking of how to convert to an inboard diesel for quite some time now. Unfortunately not going to happen as I haven't got the 6-10K necessary to make it happen.

fetching petrol is another cannard

I do it on the current boat

a bike is a wonderful transport system

KTL as a project uses very little petrol on the boat

I love sailing - dislike motoring - do not have schedules and cannot film when the engine is going

D

 

[greggron]

Ok. Decision made. When do you start?

 

[conor54]

Several outboard well conversions shown on this site: http://atomvoyages.com/articles/improvement-projects/249-outboard-1.html

Edit : looks like I'm a few posts behind....

 

[dylanwinter]

Ok. Decision made. When do you start?

2019 or thereabouts I reckon

D

 

[Nigel-in-Oxford]

2019 or thereabouts I reckon

D

Give me a shout then I'll give you a hand (as long as you let me crew on the test sail)

 

[dylanwinter]

Give me a shout then I'll give you a hand (as long as you let me crew on the test sail)

I am sure it will sail just as well/badly as any centaur

it is how it motors that will be of concern

and unless it gets up on the plane at a minimum of 12 knots against a hurricane and Grey Mouth sized seas then it will be regarded as an utter failure