Bru
Well-Known Member
You'll be doing it a lot more after this!
I think you're gonna need a bigger bike
Not for much longer and ...
You could if you had ... A NICE QUIET SENSIBLE INBOARD DIESEL!!!!!!
Tohatsu MFS9.8A3 UL 9.8HP 4STR UL (£2,141.41p) in westerly centaur with dead engine
- Thread starter dylanwinter
- Start date
You'll be doing it a lot more after this!
I think you're gonna need a bigger bike
Not for much longer and ...
You could if you had ... A NICE QUIET SENSIBLE INBOARD DIESEL!!!!!!
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
You'll be doing it a lot more after this!
I think you're gonna need a bigger bike
Not for much longer and ...
You could if you had ... A NICE QUIET SENSIBLE INBOARD DIESEL!!!!!!
filmed with the diesel
just as hard as with the outboard
and I am really not rich enough to own a big new reliable diesel
all very well you chaps telling me to spend £6,000 on a new engine for my fictitious Centaur
£6,000 buys me an awful lot of sailing time
D
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Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
2019!
The way Centaur prices are dropping they'll be paying you to take one away by then, so why not just put this tread on ice for half a decade and then look at the numbers again?
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
I hope so
there are signs of realism in the market already
of course.... if this works then the prices of Old Centaurs could be utterly transformed
D
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
I do that too as I have a petrol engine. I can carry 12 gallons quite easily and safely which gives me a range of about 250 miles. This summer up and down the lower half of the west coast of Scotland I didn't have any difficulty. I fill up when it's nearby. I find I get to know the places where it is easily available and those where it isn't. I also find that in out of the way places the local population often seem willing to drive me a mile or two to a petrol station if I look forlorn. If you/I are both still here by the time you get to the west of Scotland I'll let you know where fuel supplies are that I have found.
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
It is funny how many of the objections to this project are not based on the physics or practicalities
but on imaginary things
But I guess if you spend your days with an engine costing as much as my whole boat then you would have to believe that an inboard is the only answer for serious sailors
yours dangerous Dyl and unserious sailor
chrishelen
N/A
I dont know if this has been suggested before but could you bolt an outboard braket on the back and try it out first?
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
I do all my sailing on a dangerously unseaworthy petrol-powered toy of a boat that is going to flip over or break on every gust. Well, that's according to the received wisdom of this place anyway. I passed the 30k mile mark this summer on this little weekender plaything that's no good for anything more than a sail round the bay. Off to Scandinavia and hopefully the Arctic circle next year, but I'm not telling anyone because of all the howls of anguish my plan would provoke.
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
I have experience of outboards on the backs of boats
rather not go back there again
the prop on Katie L never lest go of the water
on the eboat and sonata it spent almost as much time churning air as it did water
handing an outboard i n a well is so much easier than hanging over the stern
chrishelen
N/A
point taken, but didn't you just want to see if the small engine would push the heavy boat along before you chopped it up? you could try it in flat water and see if its got enough grunt.
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
I do all my sailing on a dangerously unseaworthy petrol-powered toy of a boat that is going to flip over or break on every gust. Well, that's according to the received wisdom of this place anyway. I passed the 30k mile mark this summer on this little weekender plaything that's no good for anything more than a sail round the bay. Off to Scandinavia and hopefully the Arctic circle next year, but I'm not telling anyone because of all the howls of anguish my plan would provoke.
in the immortal words
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
I am reasonably confident that the engine is man enough to push the boat in flat water
I use the 2.3 on my one 1.5 tonne Minstrel
and I have also used a two hp seagull on a 70 foot 30 tonne barge
It is how it wuld perform in a chop and against strong wind which is in doubt
and I will really only learn that when/if I try it
if katie L sinks then thei will deffo be my next boat project
Austerby
Well-Known Member
I have a yacht with an outboard sitting in a cockpit well - an Achilles 24 (6hp 4-stroke boat displacement 2600lbs) - and it's coped perfectly well with difficult conditions, eg 30kts on the nose entering the Medway from Sea Reach against wind and tide. Was a bit wet but it punched through without struggling.
I'm a big fan of the cockpit well outboard on older boats: so pleased not to have the stress of an inboard. The downside is the noise but I have an idea coming together about how to take the edge off it, which will be sufficient. Fuel consumption is about 0.5l per hour I reckon.
I'm with Dylan on this one - I think it's a great idea. I expect Roger (MingMing) Taylor would have got quite a few well-meant but disuasive comments had he come on here asking for inputs about taking a junk-rigged Corribee to the Artic or mid-Atlantic.
I'm a big fan of the cockpit well outboard on older boats: so pleased not to have the stress of an inboard. The downside is the noise but I have an idea coming together about how to take the edge off it, which will be sufficient. Fuel consumption is about 0.5l per hour I reckon.
I'm with Dylan on this one - I think it's a great idea. I expect Roger (MingMing) Taylor would have got quite a few well-meant but disuasive comments had he come on here asking for inputs about taking a junk-rigged Corribee to the Artic or mid-Atlantic.
chrishelen
N/A
Ha..wonderful.
Croak
Well-Known Member
I don't get this strong tide thing.
If a boat with an outboard engine willl motor at 6 mph on still water, it will motor at 2 mph against a strong tide of 4 mph.
If a boat with an inboard engine will motor at 6 mph on still water, it will motor at 2 mph against a strong tide of 4 mph
I understand that a headwind or chop will slow different boats, with different props and engines in different ways.
If a boat with an outboard engine willl motor at 6 mph on still water, it will motor at 2 mph against a strong tide of 4 mph.
If a boat with an inboard engine will motor at 6 mph on still water, it will motor at 2 mph against a strong tide of 4 mph
I understand that a headwind or chop will slow different boats, with different props and engines in different ways.
contessaman
Well-Known Member
It will push it fine in calm water. really well in fact. I don't believe the problem of the noise either - A modern 4 stroke outboard in a well designed well (can I say that?!) would be pretty quiet too especially if some soundproofing lid with baffles is used. It will doubtless have a chaging coil on it so it will charge your batteries too.
If you dont care about selling the boat again then the financial side isnt an issue either.
If your sailing will only ever consist of short fair weather coastal hops. then it will be fine. Equally if you are going to do ocean crossing under sail alone then it would be fine (assuming seaworthiness and rudder are not compromised).
the massive but is the how it will perform in a coastal chop against a strong wind. it wont. Here there are two simple bits of physics which will let you down. 10 hp is nowhere near enough. to be able to punch the headsea with that bluff centaur bow and knuckle and the windage of that boat you need more like 25 or 30hp. and given a displacement hull its effectively the bollard pull you are looking at. Even if you buy a 30hp outboard, with a fine pitch prop, if you tied a rope to the back of the boat an measured the pull it will be nowhere near that of a 30hp inboard with a 2:1 box swinging a big 3 bladed prop.
my boat with the 50hp perkins will do hull speed (about 6 knots) with just over 1000prm in the flat. a few weeks back dropping the sails off lavernock headland and motoring in to the breakwater and locks in cardiff I was pushing 2500rpm and using most of my 50 horses to make 4 knots into the sea.
depending on your sailing the OB will be fine 95% of the time. When you get caught out though you'll wish you had the IB. Thats safety and never worth a compromise in my view. I have given lots of people a tow and the extra beans of a big engine comes in very handy.
dont get me wrong we sail everywhere if theres wind but a nice powerful engine that can stick two fingers up at a nasty headland chop is as good a piece of safety kit as anything else carried. I have no experience of the east coast but when you get around to the bristol channel you'll know what I mean. getting swept sideways at 6 knots by the tide can ruin your day pretty fast as you try to enter port with a little outboard revving its guts out.
you keep talking fondly of the nice big safe centaur. much of their popularity, safety and following stems from their decent sailing ability coupled to motor sailer levels of BHP.
ultimately I think your heart is already set. When you are looking for your cheap centaur make sure its not just the engine that has been neglected. Its unlikely a boat with a terminally I'll motor will have been used much and hence the age of the standing rigging, condition of sails and well documented hull to keel joint could all be lurking behind the joy of finding a bargain basement centaur.
If you dont care about selling the boat again then the financial side isnt an issue either.
If your sailing will only ever consist of short fair weather coastal hops. then it will be fine. Equally if you are going to do ocean crossing under sail alone then it would be fine (assuming seaworthiness and rudder are not compromised).
the massive but is the how it will perform in a coastal chop against a strong wind. it wont. Here there are two simple bits of physics which will let you down. 10 hp is nowhere near enough. to be able to punch the headsea with that bluff centaur bow and knuckle and the windage of that boat you need more like 25 or 30hp. and given a displacement hull its effectively the bollard pull you are looking at. Even if you buy a 30hp outboard, with a fine pitch prop, if you tied a rope to the back of the boat an measured the pull it will be nowhere near that of a 30hp inboard with a 2:1 box swinging a big 3 bladed prop.
my boat with the 50hp perkins will do hull speed (about 6 knots) with just over 1000prm in the flat. a few weeks back dropping the sails off lavernock headland and motoring in to the breakwater and locks in cardiff I was pushing 2500rpm and using most of my 50 horses to make 4 knots into the sea.
depending on your sailing the OB will be fine 95% of the time. When you get caught out though you'll wish you had the IB. Thats safety and never worth a compromise in my view. I have given lots of people a tow and the extra beans of a big engine comes in very handy.
dont get me wrong we sail everywhere if theres wind but a nice powerful engine that can stick two fingers up at a nasty headland chop is as good a piece of safety kit as anything else carried. I have no experience of the east coast but when you get around to the bristol channel you'll know what I mean. getting swept sideways at 6 knots by the tide can ruin your day pretty fast as you try to enter port with a little outboard revving its guts out.
you keep talking fondly of the nice big safe centaur. much of their popularity, safety and following stems from their decent sailing ability coupled to motor sailer levels of BHP.
ultimately I think your heart is already set. When you are looking for your cheap centaur make sure its not just the engine that has been neglected. Its unlikely a boat with a terminally I'll motor will have been used much and hence the age of the standing rigging, condition of sails and well documented hull to keel joint could all be lurking behind the joy of finding a bargain basement centaur.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
I agree that 10hp is insufficient for a Centaur, but I don't agree with the above. The outboards intended for sailing boats are geared and propped to use maximum power at 6.5-7 knots of boatspeed, same as an inboard would be. The man on the Tohatsu stand at SIBS told me this. The main cause of lack of thrust from a suitable sail boat outboard is the prop coming out of the water when the boat rolls or pitches, or the prop ingesting exhaust gas in reverse, but not the gearing or propellor.
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AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
That, I think, will be the killer of the project. Everything will be worn out and knackered on a fixer-upper with a dead engine. As the cost of the replacement of boat kit seems to be proportional to the cube of the boat length it makes much more sense to buy one in good condition where someone else has poured in the money to bring it to a safe and usable condition. Let them take the loss. I have learned this lesson the expensive way in the past.
maxi77
Well-Known Member
On the other hand the original engine offered as standard on the Centaur was a 10hp - 16hp, the bigger engines appeared as a result of an engine deal between Westerly and Volvo which meant that a large part of the range all had the same engine.
chinita
Well-Known Member
Dylan keeps asking for the physics. Here is the physics as stated in Post#3:
This is the salient point, not debates about how much or little HP you need.
This is the salient point, not debates about how much or little HP you need.