Tohatsu MFS9.8A3 UL 9.8HP 4STR UL (£2,141.41p) in westerly centaur with dead engine

Friend of mine recently purchased two OM616 and they both turned out to be duff, not that it proves anything but there you go!
Contrary to what some on here seem to think I'd say modifying an old boat by putting in an o/b well isn't rocket science. Enough "off the shelf boat circumnavigates IOW" articles in PBO already btw. Not that I'm suggesting Dillo merely wants to pull off a publicity stunt after they turned down his proposed series for Lamp Collectors Weekly ;)
 
contessaman said:
Hey dylan I have found your ideal boat!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2er8OM9O9RI

:)


joking aside, have you thought about a macgregor 26?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mYTOnOs3Y

would tick a lot of boxes for you - able to explore the creeks etc. outboard power. more room down below than your current ride.
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you are dead right



out of my price bracket

sadly

you are dead right it would do do the job very nicely

shallow draft, full standing headroom

and lots of people who sail them who might watch the films

however,quite apart from the money - they really hold their value,

with me speed is seldom of the essence

and I have never been a wheel sort of sailor

tillers and end mains for me all the way
 
JumbleDuck said:
Congratulations. I wonder why someone was selling a five year old 1GM10 for a grand?
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I know exactly why it was replaced, that it was completely legitimate and probably better and more regularly serviced than most. You just need to ask around enough in the right places and sooner or later something decent turns up for sensible money. As I said up thread, I could have had a similar aged Nanni 14 for £1500. Again, that would probably not have put the total cost of a diesel repower much, if at all, above that of an outboard conversion using a cheaper second hand motor and avoid the inevitable compromises of such a mod.
 
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Simondjuk said:
I know exactly why it was replaced, that it was completely legitimate and probably better and more regularly serviced than most.
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Sorry, didn't mean to come across as snide. Sounds as if you got a good deal - if I could find an equally good 1GM10 deal I'd snap it up for my boat.
 
Apparently the forces and perhaps some other government agencies who use small work boats tend to replace the engines very early to guard against downtime due to major servicing and the (remote) possibility of reliability issues. That was the source of mine, albeit indirectly. The Nanni was available through a local marine diesel engineer and Yanmar agent who had fitted a 3GM30 (I think) in its place due to the owner of a boat thinking that 14hp was insufficient for his needs.

These things often tend to cost less when you pitch up prospectively looking to buy whatever they might have than they do by the time they get advertised.
 
Nicholas123 said:
I would be very surprised if ten horse power were enough to power a Centaur.I had a ten horse power Mercury on a Kestrel that I used for years & it struggled at times.It's not just the horse power but the prop size & the low down grunt that a diesel produces that seems to make the difference.(I have a 10 HP Bukh in my Macwester 27 & it seems much more powerful).
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Outboard HP is measured at the prop, inboards at the gearbox. A 10hp outboard is equivalent to a 12hp inboard in pure hp terms. How useable that hp is will be another consideration. Good luck, I've often wondered about powering the kipper with an outboard for a season if the trusty lump goes pop.
 
Lazy Kipper said:
Outboard HP is measured at the prop, inboards at the gearbox. A 10hp outboard is equivalent to a 12hp inboard in pure hp terms. How useable that hp is will be another consideration. Good luck, I've often wondered about powering the kipper with an outboard for a season if the trusty lump goes pop.
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I don't care how the theory goes I know from practical experience which one I would rather have powering my Macwester 27.How other people waste their money is up to them.
 
Not sure which of the many threads on Dylan's new project to post this .....

Someone said earlier about two camps appearing - the ones who think Dylan should go down the o/b in a well route and those who think the idea is a bit mad and who favour inboards.

I have nothing against chopping a hole in an old Centaur per se but I am very much in favour of inboards in a sailing boat when a few miles offshore. I just cannot understand why Dylan is so hung up on the outboard solution. A second hand inboard engine in decent nick could be installed in the same time it would take to fabricate a well. Financially it also makes sense. A cheap Centaur which has had its knackered original engine replaced with a second hand reliable one is going to be worth far more than a Centaur with a home made outboard well.

I would rate an inboard diesel for reliability higher than a 4 stroke outboard (even a brand new one). Two pieces of evidence; 1. There are tens of thousands of small diesel engines running reliably on building sites, day in, day out. These take all kinds of abuse and the engines themselves are the basis of the marinised boaty ones. 2. Go down to any small boat harbour in the UK and see what the single handed lobster pot fishermen are using. Most opt for displacement hulls with inboard diesels (presumably because these provide a more stable platform when working their gear) but some go for semi-displacement or full planing hulls. The second type often have a meaty outboard hanging off the back. The difference is that the inboard diesel guys seem happy to trust their engine whilst those with the outboard frequently have a second smaller outboard as well - presumably because they do not trust the reliability of their main engine.

I think everyone would agree that an inboard diesel in a heavy boat like the Centaur gives the most efficient propulsion but I think reliability has to be an important factor.
 
Storyline said:
Someone said earlier about two camps appearing - the ones who think Dylan should go down the o/b in a well route and those who think the idea is a bit mad and who favour inboards.
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I think there's a third group.

Those who think an inboard is eminently sensible and an outboard is plain daft, but are stringing Dylan along because it promises to far more entertaining than Strictly Come Dancing.

This third group might actually include DW himself, who strikes me as delightful mischief maker.
 
my motives for cutting a hole in a Centaur

Righto

1st.... I am not doing this just for ****s and giggles

I have always held it as true that the biggest safety feature of any boat, the thing that prevents you from getting on that radio and calling for help is that when you press that button, turn that key, pull that starter the engine should burst into life and keep going un til you ask it to stop

I get frightened very easily

The only times I have been anywhere near frightened on a boat was when the engine did not start or even worse, died

I only use my engine when I can't sail

three gallons between the top of the Humber and Edinburgh should tell you about my priorities

I use the engine when it is mission critical - getting in and out of harbours

so fuel efficiency is not a priority

dependability is number 1

getting that level of reliability in an inboard diesel is not cheap

getting that level of reliability in an outboard is about a third the price


buying an old boat with a with a 50 year old/20 year old or even 10 years old engine is no guarantee

as you know a bad owner can kill a good engine in pretty short time

The next phase of the journey will take me around Cape Wrath

Katie L could do it

but when push comes to shove she is a one tonne shallow draft trailer sailer

perfect for going into nooks and crannies - dropping the mast and nipping into Lincoln

I will have to watch the weather very carefully

I will need a long clear window

I will have to spend many hours in Scottish Harbours waiting for the weather to come right

so for the waiting full standing headroom will be most useful

standing in the companionway under a brolly is okay for day 1

but after that.....


As we all know a Centaur has amazing accommodation and pretty good seakeeping qualities. They have been abused all over these islands

very few have gone down

they do weigh damn near three times as much as a Minstrel

They were designed for a 10hp diesel - which as I understand it is measured at the engine end and not the prop end so I will be delivering more than LG intended

so with a 10hp outboard I am delivering power in the same place

certainly it will be noisy, certainly it will not be as powerful as most Centaurs which usually have many more horses

so if I can get a Centaur up and running for £3K then what is wrong with that


I am astonished at the reaction of some blokes who seem really fixated on dissing an attempt by a fellow sailor to get a good sea boat with full standing headroom and a reliable engine.

To get such a package in a Centaur will realistically cost you the thick end of £10,000

either one with a great engine for 10K

or one with an elderly engine for 4K and bring it up to scratch

some people say it might take 1K and a lot of work

The second will need money spending on it

If I can bring a £2,000 outboard together with a bought £2,000 boat then I will have a reliable power unit, a good sea boat and full standing headroom when I undertake the most dangerous part of the voyage

Electrics, plumbing, headlining, noise while under power and high fuel consumption are of no consequence at all to me

I took to the forums because there are some really helpful and knowledgeable blokes on here

you know who you are

along with them there are also a few people who like to bring a lot of negativity to the discussion

Lads, feel free to criticise my methods, my choice of boat, the colour of my sails or the cut of my jib

but please trust me to be honest when it comes to my motives

all I am is a bloke on a budget that is so much tighter than most of you can ever imagine who is trying to sail the most difficult and dangerous part of a journey that has so far taken me five years


cheers Boys

Dylan
 
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Twister_Ken said:
I think there's a third group.

Those who think an inboard is eminently sensible and an outboard is plain daft, but are stringing Dylan along because it promises to far more entertaining than Strictly Come Dancing.

This third group might actually include DW himself, who strikes me as delightful mischief maker.
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I think I might start a fourth group who think he will bottle it at the last minute. He will find a cheap unloved Centaur, fall in love with it and then just not have the heart to cut a great big hole in her bottom. I have been on a Centaur a couple of times and they really are proper strong sea boats. Quote from Sailnet " Apparently a H.T. Rothwell single-handed a Centaur in the transatlantic crossing in 1986, ....., and Steve Way did a circumnavigation in the '70s."
 
dylanwinter said:
Righto

1st.... I am not doing this just for ****s and giggles.....

If I can bring a £2,000 outboard together with a bought £2,000 boat then I will have a reliable power unit, a good sea boat and full standing headroom when I undertake the most dangerous part of the voyage .....
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I do not think the majority of the posters are being negative just for the sake of it but are just questioning your maths. Just a quick search on Google brought up this ..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marine-Diesel-Engine-MP-321-Complete-With-Gearbox-/121200145424

View attachment 36270

It looks like a lovely little engine - tons of power for a Centaur, has only done 18 hours and is offers under £2650. You might well get it for the same price as the outboard. Surely you would admit that this would be a better solution .....

edit: and it would still be going strong long after the high revving outboard had whizzed itself to death ;)
 
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Well I really hope you can do the conversion, it's a fantastic project. I always carry an outboard on the back, not because I don't trust the inboard, I don't trust myself not to run over a crab pot. and coming through the pool of London it is usually ticking over (ever since I picked up a : plastic bucket, bag rope and almost whole bush!) In your position I would do exactly the same. (if yours goes to plan I may have a go at one when I retire).
 
One aspect that hasn't been considered fully (not that I've read every post in this lengthy thread) is the propellor. Outboard props are designed for high revs, inboard for low revs. I'm not an expert on prop calcs, and would welcome correction from one, but it seems that a large prop gives more thrust when countering rough seas and will keep the boat going in difficult conditions when a small, high revving prop will just spin?
Full marks to Dylan for thinking outside the box.
 
ghostlymoron said:
One aspect that hasn't been considered fully (not that I've read every post in this lengthy thread) is the propellor. Outboard props are designed for high revs, inboard for low revs. I'm not an expert on prop calcs, and would welcome correction from one, but it seems that a large prop gives more thrust when countering rough seas and will keep the boat going in difficult conditions when a small, high revving prop will just spin?
Full marks to Dylan for thinking outside the box.
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it is a high thrust long shaft 9.8hp optimised for displacement boats

it will deliver 9.8 hp at the prop

the Centaur was designed for a new 10 hp diesel measured at the engine

as I understand it I will delivering slightly more thrust than LG designed the boat for

D
 
Storyline said:
I do not think the majority of the posters are being negative just for the sake of it but are just questioning your maths. Just a quick search on Google brought up this ..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Marine-Diesel-Engine-MP-321-Complete-With-Gearbox-/121200145424

It looks like a lovely little engine - tons of power for a Centaur, has only done 18 hours and is offers under £2650. You might well get it for the same price as the outboard. Surely you would admit that this would be a better solution .....

edit: and it would still be going strong long after the high revving outboard had whizzed itself to death ;)
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That's almost the same as a brand new M-Power engine, you must be joking. Checked what the forum thinks of this particular engine, have you?
Buying an obscure Chinese engine of dubious quality and spending all that money and time on installing it has to be the worst option. Why do you think the seller wants it out?
 
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Storyline said:
and it would still be going strong long after the high revving outboard had whizzed itself to death ;)
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Outboard engines don't whizz themselves to death. They are low revving for their technology and size, typically peaking at 5000 rpm. Similar Japanese motorcycle engines rev to 10k...12k, and more, and seem to go on for ever. What kills outboard engines is the same as what kills small inboard diesels, namely corrosion and cost of spares. Corrosion is a bigger problem at the bottom of the range as materials have to be compromised to keep the price down. By the time you are paying £2k for a 10hp they are much better made.

I'd rather have a Japanese petrol engine of excellent design and quality workmanship from a reputable manufacturer with decent backup than some dodgy Chinese rip off diesel made from their best cheese metal.
 
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