To the current owner of Raffiki - possible fraud?

ontheplane said:
Attempting to obtain pecuniary advantage by means of deception is a criminal offence yes.

There is also the offence of conspiracy to defraud by means of misrepresentation.
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Attempt and conspiracy apply to all indictable offences. An attempt needs to be an act that is more than merely preparatory so not sure that an offence is made out when an advert is placed - it might be. Conspiracy requires one or more people to agree upon a course of action so can be tricky to prove.

I wonder whether it is more of a Trading Standards issue as they have specific offences
 
I would think the fact he has placed the same auctions of multiple listings over a number of years must count as some sort 0f evidence he’s out to defraud.
 
The pic that was on the ad on ebay I have seen on another ad from one of the yacht brokers, the boat fell within the parameters I have set while looking for a boat for my wife and myself, it's at the lower end of the size we are looking for.
 
The problem is, eBay keep pulling these ads and they keep posting them. That’s a lot of effort for nothing, so something tells me he is making some money somewhere from it somehow.......

EBay or the Police or someone need to do something to try and stop it because someone is getting conned somewhere....
 
The police of which country ???? the fraudster is probably 14 years old living in a 3rd world country where policing is equally as backward!!
 
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Did a little 'forensics', supported by our friend Google:

Still for sale here:
Boat Cruiser Twin Deisel Cranchi Giada 29 (32 Ft) for sale from United Kingdom

Listing Type: Chinese
Make: Not Specified
Trailer: Not Included
Item's Postal Code: so311aa points to e.g. Bursledon Hall, Blundell Lane, Bursledon, Southampton where The Drug Safety Research Unit (DSRU), who work in Pharmacovigilance led by Director Professor Saad Shakir, resides.

It's a small world, as this gentleman ia actually known by my company ;). I don't think he has any connection to the Rafiki matter, though!

The 'Listing Type: Chinese' according to Google has made quite many people wonder. If catched by the add site, based on the IP used when posting, it might actually be the most valuable bit of info and the biggest reason to give up on any authorities getting involved.

Ad sites could block certain geographies by the same IP location method, if they care at all.

The add displays phone no. 07518060410 which by searching on the same ad-site finds 172 boats for sale:
Search

I'm certain some with sufficient access and permissions would be able to track the person down.
 
These ads are regular with same pics and MO, ebay could stop it if they ere motivated.............. but they simply prefer to delete, as far as the unassuming would be buyers are concerned its buyer beware as usual !
 
It is still not clear if a crimminal offence has already been committed. The ads seem to contravene Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
But it isn't clear if that is a crimminal Offence or has to be prosecuted by a authorised body.
I would have thought that until you have been mislead and paid money there is not fraud which the Police could prosecute. If the advertiser is not in the UK, all bets may be off.
We need a solicitor member (of which there are a few) to offer advice.
 
I think you are all right in that if the “perp” is in Nigeria, China or pretty much anywhere like that the poor police have no chance.

The only way to catch would be to follow a “sale” through almost to completion - at some point, in order to get the money, the sca,met would have to give out SOME detail about themselves, a bank account, PayPal account or something? This is about the only chance of catching them, or at least shutting the accounts down which if done several times might at least make them give up....
 
Caraway said:
It is still not clear if a crimminal offence has already been committed. The ads seem to contravene Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
But it isn't clear if that is a crimminal Offence or has to be prosecuted by a authorised body.
I would have thought that until you have been mislead and paid money there is not fraud which the Police could prosecute. If the advertiser is not in the UK, all bets may be off.
We need a solicitor member (of which there are a few) to offer advice.
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I think you're correct and no criminal offence has taken place until he fails to deliver the goods.
I could put your boat up for sale, sell it, collect my funds, buy the boat from you and deliver it to my customer without breaking any law.
In fact I'm pretty sure that's how the sale went with my first boat as I had it imported from the US.
 
Hmm. But surely to offer something for sale you need to know that you CAN deliver it? I can't sell Tower Bridge, take the money, then pop off to see if I am able to buy it surely?
 
ontheplane said:
Hmm. But surely to offer something for sale you need to know that you CAN deliver it? I can't sell Tower Bridge, take the money, then pop off to see if I am able to buy it surely?
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Sure you can and when you don't deliver you have to return my money and I can sue you for damages etc etc.
It's done all the time. How often do you buy something online and they message to say it's out of stock and there will be a shipping delay. In that case they have sold something they don't own and need to wait for the manufacturer to ship it to them.
In this case the guy is trying to commit fraud but hasn't actually done it until he fails to deliver.

I guess he could be charged with conspiracy but it would be a really difficult one to prove.
 
Wandering Star said:
Noticed all the auctions were taken down as usual by eBay but he’s back a day later with a fresh attempt HUNTER HORIZON 232 SAILING YACHT-ALMOST NEW | eBay - check his “other items to see if you recognise your own boat or car amongst the offerings!
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Lol - there are loads of them all over eBay, mainly 2 or 3 accounts some with 1700 listings.... As long as all eBay do is pull them the same thing will keep happening, they need to actually take some action. I don’t know what they can do to be fair, but it makes using eBay a pain.

Interestingly, I sent the guy an email as per the email address on eBay saying the boat looked really nice, Would he drop £200 on the buy it now figure, and did he have a paypal account I could transfer a deposit to - heard nothing! So it does beg the question, what are these guys trying to achieve?
 
ontheplane said:
bank account, PayPal account or something? This is about the only chance of catching them
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I had a blackmail/extortion incident 2 years ago . They were not that bright and managed to get full details of two uk bank accounts with names and uk mobile numbers.
Police were not interested!
 
It always staggers me how disinterested the UK police are about any crime... I once caught a shoplifter, they promised to be round in 2 or 3 days.......... when I pointed out I had them detained they said, "oh, I dont think you can detain them"......
 
ontheplane said:
It always staggers me how disinterested the UK police are about any crime... I once caught a shoplifter, they promised to be round in 2 or 3 days.......... when I pointed out I had them detained they said, "oh, I dont think you can detain them"......
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It isn’t disinterest, it is more about overwhelming demand combined with significant cuts under austerity. They simply can’t investigate or respond to everything. Not suggesting that they get it right all the time because, like all of us, they don’t and the response to you about detaining the shoplifter is an example, but I guess that was a call taker as opposed to an officer.
 
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