To Origo or not that is the question!

AngusMcDoon said:
Being a fully paid up member of the chattering class, I did some sums on how many megajoules of heat you get for £1 of fuel comparing your price for bioethanol with £28 for a refill of a 907 Camping Gaz bottle. Here they are...

907
2.72kg butane
£28 for a refill
£10.29 per kg
133.0 MJ/kg
12.9 MJ/£


bioethanol
51.9 MJ/kg
789 kg/cubic metre
20 litres of bioethanol is 15.78 kg
costs £46
£2.91/kg
17.8 MJ/£

So it seems that your bioethanol is two thirds the price of butane in a 907 for the same amount of heat.

Following that I did some more sums, to find out the megajoules per kg of gas in a 907 including the weight of the bottle, which is substantial...

907 empty weight 3.7 kg
907 full weight 6.4 kg
MJ in a bottle 359.1
MJ per kg including bottle 56.1

That compares very closely with the energy density of ethanol at 52 MJ/kg. Of course, the ethanol bottles will have weight, but unless your a trimaranist, they are trivially small.

So in summary, comparing bioethanol with butane in a 907 per unit heat: bioethanol is cheaper, the weight is about the same. Safety I'll leave to others to cogitate.

If anyone wants to check my figures and calculations and finds an error I'll update the above.
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Angus, you start with a spurious assumption, that of the cost of LPG which I gave you €9 - or £6.25, paid yesterday. The cylinder I got contained (by weighing) 3.08kg of mixed butane/propane. It's only Carter's who've progressively reduced the amount of LPG in the 907 cylinder.
You've also ignored the hygroscopic effect of methanol - so I think you've successfully proved the inherent shiftiness of the "chattering" classes. Who after all are in it to provoke interest and response rather than perform an objective, scientific review of the facts.
 
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charles_reed said:
Angus, you start with a spurious assumption, that of the cost of LPG which I gave you €9 - or £6.25, paid yesterday. The cylinder I got contained (by weighing) 3.08kg of mixed butane/propane. It's only Carter's who've progressively reduced the amount of LPG in the 907 cylinder.
You've also ignored the hygroscopic effect of methanol - so I think you've successfully proved the inherent shiftiness of the "chattering" classes. Who after all are in it to provoke interest and response rather than perform an objective, scientific review of the facts.
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Charles
You have started with the spurious assumption that I was responding to your post. I was not.

I don't care what you paid for your gas wherever you are. The price you paid is not the price that bottled gas is available for in the UK. I used a typical UK price of a commonly available gas cylinder here, because that's where I am and that's where Dylan is for comparison against the price of bioethanol he gave. I made it clear throughout my figures that I was comparing the price of gas in a 907 and the fact that the prices quoted were in £ is a good indication that I was using UK prices.

The hygroscopic nature of alcohols is of trivial importance. An opened bottle in common cruising use will be consumed long before any hygroscopic effects have taken place.

If you don't like cooking on bioethanol or meths, that's fine by me, but I don't understand why you are getting worked up about it. My assessment of the facts was suitably fact based, scientific and objective for this forum. If you think you can do better then I would be interested to see your assessment, but so far, for a reason only you can know, you seem to be more interested in insults.
 
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Love my origo. Kettle takes 7 - 10 mins max. It's cooled down by the time I've drunk my tea and I can put the rubber seal back on.

I fill it once per full week onboard or once per four weekends.

Simple and easy and no need for a gas locker etc.

Suit my mab perfectly :)
 
AngusMcDoon said:
Charles
You have started with the spurious assumption that I was responding to your post. I was not.

I don't care what you paid for your gas wherever you are. The price you paid is not the price that bottled gas is available for in the UK. I used a typical UK price of a commonly available gas cylinder here, because that's where I am and that's where Dylan is for comparison against the price of bioethanol he gave.

The hygroscopic nature of alcohols is of trivial importance. An opened bottle in common cruising use will be consumed long before any hygroscopic effects have taken place.

If you don't like cooking on bioethanol or meths, that's fine by me, but I don't understand why you are getting worked up about it. My assessment of the facts was suitably fact based, scientific and objective for this forum. If you think you can do better then I would be interested to see your assessment, but so far you seem to be more interested in insults.
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I'm sorry, I thought you were.
That it is your misfortune to sail in the UK where LPG prices are unjustifiable (probably due to the inertia of the purchasing public) does not justify the incorrect assumption that methanol, purchased from a specialist supplier, is cheaper than LPG.
Being a reasonably competent cook, living on a boat for 6/12, and cooking aboard I would not consider an alcohol stove as an effective source for cooking. For those who boil the odd kettle, or heat the occasional Fray Bentos, it may be adequate. Having used both, I'd not dine aboard a boat with an alcohol stove.
 
charles_reed said:
I'm sorry, I thought you were.
That it is your misfortune to sail in the UK where LPG prices are unjustifiable (probably due to the inertia of the purchasing public) does not justify the incorrect assumption that methanol, purchased from a specialist supplier, is cheaper than LPG.
Being a reasonably competent cook, living on a boat for 6/12, and cooking aboard I would not consider an alcohol stove as an effective source for cooking. For those who boil the odd kettle, or heat the occasional Fray Bentos, it may be adequate. Having used both, I'd not dine aboard a boat with an alcohol stove.
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Get you!!

Tim
 
charles_reed said:
That it is your misfortune to sail in the UK where LPG prices are unjustifiable (probably due to the inertia of the purchasing public) does not justify the incorrect assumption that methanol, purchased from a specialist supplier, is cheaper than LPG.
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At the end of the day, the cost of cooking fuel is trivial compared to other costs of running a boat. It really doesn't matter. Maybe gas costs are higher in the UK that southern Europe, but it's balanced by chandlery being cheaper and water is never charged for.

I'm not sure what we can do about high gas prices. Picket gas depots? Boycott LPG and cook on something else? It's all very well blaming public inertia, but I'm can't see a solution. Taking an empty bottle to back street Bob to fill it unofficially is just not going to happen in this tightly regulated country.

I don't see it as a misfortune to sail in the UK. I prefer a cool climate.
 
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Halo said:
Staple on our boat underway is Cornish pasties. Would not like to warm them on an origo.
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Whyever not? Sadly the wonderful Double Skillet is no longer available but it's not beyond the wit of man to put one pan upside down on top of another and create an oven

charles_reed said:
For those who boil the odd kettle, or heat the occasional Fray Bentos, it may be adequate. Having used both, I'd not dine aboard a boat with an alcohol stove.
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You ain't 'alf talking a load of cobblers Charles!

Jane and I are both keen cooks and we've cooked pretty well anything and everything you care to think of on a two burner Origo up to and including a full Christmas roast dinner for two

Anytime you're Essex way, give us a shout and we'll feed you up proper!
 
LONG_KEELER said:
Each to their own I suppose but after 20 years of gas I am very happy with my Origo.

Just started using Bio Ethanol which does not seem to smell much.

Kettle boils just fine. A little longer than gas .

No grill though. Will let you know in November how I coped with no toast this season.
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Just buy a toasting pyramid from go outdoors
 
On the Centaur we have an Origo, and it works well. The trouble with a Centaur is there is no gas locker, and fitting one isn't easy so it's easier to stick with the meths burner. OK we can't do toast, but that makes us realise that we aren't at home, we are at the boat. Boiling a kettle takes a bit longer but we are away on the boat so there is no rush, and it's not much longer so why worry.

The trail sailer has a gas two burner and minute grill but it has a gas locker with a proper safe drain. We still like to BBQ tough, cooking sat sideways on my bed is a pain.
 
I thought I would be smart and find a link to Oz mehtylated spirits cookers. They used to be quite common. I have single myself. Has a sprit tank at the back and a valve to feed spirit into a burner where it is preheated and comes out like a gas flame. I really like mine although a bit slow. Anyway went to all my usual Oz sites and the only one that seems to be available is the Origo. All the others have disappeared. They were horendously expensive mind you.
Anyway with the problems and dangers of gas unless you envisage a lot of use go for Origo or some other sort of spirit cooker. olewill
 
The bottom line is that some people use the origo for 'safety' reasons. It is a compromise as it is certainly nowhere near as good as gas for its primary function. Gas is pretty much the best fuel for cooking being instant, high heat and with a clear visual indication of setting. Some people are able to put up with the drawbacks of an origo style cooker because they are worried about gas explosions. I prefer to cook well and accept the low risk.
 
pmagowan said:
The bottom line is that some people use the origo for 'safety' reasons. It is a compromise as it is certainly nowhere near as good as gas for its primary function. Gas is pretty much the best fuel for cooking being instant, high heat and with a clear visual indication of setting. Some people are able to put up with the drawbacks of an origo style cooker because they are worried about gas explosions. I prefer to cook well and accept the low risk.
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Not just safety. Simplicity and absence of maintenance costs are also attractive features of an Origo. Ease of installation is also in its favour. Of course its a compromise, so is everything, including a gas installation. For me on my small boat an Origo is ideal. I can do without the extra complication, bulkiness and deterioration of a gas installation, not to mention the periodic safety testing that should be carried out on a gas installation.

It's not quite as one sided as you are making out.

Tim
 
Mctavish said:
Probably not possible to use a pressure cooker on an origo, then?
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Perfectly possible, absolutely no reason not to

The anti-Origo posters are, frankly, talking out of their bottoms!* The ONLY time we ever have the burner turned up to max is to boil a kettle, and that I grant takes a little longer than on gas. For all other cooking there's ample heat available and whether baking, boiling, frying, casseroling or whatever you don't need or want it going full blast

* I can only assume that they either a) don't actually have any real experience of using an Origo or b) were using the wrong fuel or something
 
Erbas said:
Rumour is wrong

Good bit of kit, no doubt, but not the same thing
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I saw Bruce Danforth try a pyramid toaster on an Origo, and it didn't work. There must be different types if some do.

My post was badly worded. I realize the Omnia is different from the type of hob top oven you mentioned. It's the same idea though, and works well.
 
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