TMP Gearbox experience anybody?

[boatmike]

Having just bought myself a very nice Fisher Northeaster I have an old but very nice Perkins 4108 lowline in it which runs a dream and shoves her along at 8 Knots at 2700RPM so very pleased with that. It is however coupled to a Nicor TMP gearbox built by Thamesway Marine Products. I have a noise which I can't identify which could be a knackered bearing which is only evident at higher revs and although it does not seem to affect the function worries me. Oil levels in both the main box and reduction gear seem OK and oil appears clean. TMP are long gone and what is left of Nicor appears to be a very helpful 95 year old gentleman who still has some gasket sets but now't else. I do have working drawings and it appears all bearings are standard taper rollers and rebuilding appears to be fairly straightforward so my question is ....... Does anyone have experience of stripping down one of these old boxes or indeed have one and can comment on the noise? Conversely has anyone replaced one with anything else that will fit on the 4108 without modification of flywheel/bell housing etc?

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Are TMP long gone? I've had spares from them within the last 4 years.

Thamesway Marine Products: Homepage

 

[boatmike]

As I said, a 95 yr old gentleman with some spares left but certainly not manufactured anymore.

 

[pcatterall]

I have TMP mated to my 4108 and I have some spares!
Cant comment on noise. Its a heavy bit of kit, DIY repairs are said to be not for the faint hearted though, as you say, it looks straightforward ?
Make sure you get the model number correctly from the plate on the back.
Check the cooling water connectors for corrosion, check all the drains and flush. Use engine oil. Check the anode to prop/shaft connectivity as there is no real circuit through the box.

 

[Ardenfour]

I have this box too, mated to a Mercedes OM636. I have a rattly / worn bearing noise at low speed, ok at higher speed. Would love to track down more info, about this issue, and servicing instructions in general.
How do I check/replenish the oil in the reduction box?

 

[Boater Sam]

I find most TMP boxes to have a whine, even on inland waterway boats.

 

[Leguill]

I have TMP mated to my 4108 and I have some spares!
Cant comment on noise. Its a heavy bit of kit, DIY repairs are said to be not for the faint hearted though, as you say, it looks straightforward ?
Make sure you get the model number correctly from the plate on the back.
Check the cooling water connectors for corrosion, check all the drains and flush. Use engine oil. Check the anode to prop/shaft connectivity as there is no real circuit through the box.

Dear Sir, I thought I also have a TMP mated to my perkins 4108. I have contacted Graham Turner from Thamesway Marine Products and he looked at the pictures I have sent him and he told me it was not a TMP gearbox but a hydraulic pump. Your post intersted me because my oil coller must be changed or repaired (salt water leak at the top). Please look to the pictures below and confirm it is or it is not a nicor tmp gearbox . Best regards, Guillaume.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

Sorry Guillaume, there is nothing in your pictures which looks anything like my TMP gearbox.

I too think it is an hydraulic pump.

 

[Leguill]

Thank you very much for you answer.
Do you think it could be possible for me to find a new or a second hand oil cooler exactly the same I have (you can see on the picture it s leaking) ? If not, do you think i can make an adaptation with a standart oil cooler (bowman for example).
Best regards.

 

[CalicoJack]

Recently got an exchange box from Graham, now Mr TMP, he has all the parts, bearings and castings.
call Graham 01508 520344.

 

[Tranona]

Dear Sir, I thought I also have a TMP mated to my perkins 4108. I have contacted Graham Turner from Thamesway Marine Products and he looked at the pictures I have sent him and he told me it was not a TMP gearbox but a hydraulic pump. Your post intersted me because my oil coller must be changed or repaired (salt water leak at the top). Please look to the pictures below and confirm it is or it is not a nicor tmp gearbox . Best regards, Guillaume.

This looks like a hydraulic drive not a gearbox that transmits through a shaft to the propeller. What boat and engine is it? and does it have a hydraulic pump to drive the propeller.

 

[Refueler]

Leguill :​

My PRM box had a similar oil cooler ... a cylinder with multiple tubes inside. After decades of use - the tubes inside failed and cooling water (seawater from engine raw system) mixed with the oil and actually was 'exhausted' out.
I tried getting replacement - but in the end gave the Oil Cooler to a Metals Master here in Latvia who made me a new one ...

His opinion of the original was - it was sh** !! And surprised it lasted so long.

 

[Leguill]

This looks like a hydraulic drive not a gearbox that transmits through a shaft to the propeller. What boat and engine is it? and does it have a hydraulic pump to drive the propeller.

Boat is a baltic 46
Engine is a perkins 4108.
Between the engine / hydraulic drive and the propeller shaft, I have approx 2 meters oil flexible hight pressure (235 bars). Attached is the specification of the boat, page 3 : engine : perkins 4108 with hydro marine hydraulic drive 2:1 réduction.

 

[Tranona]

OK you have a Hydro Marine hydraulic drive. Hydro was an Irish company but not sure if they exist anymore. Google only shows a similar query here in 2009.

Suggest you contact AR Peachment peachment.co.uk who among other things specialise in hydraulic drives such as those used on hire boats on the French canals.

 

[Leguill]

Thank you
I have contacted A R Peachment (Graham Turner suggested me to do this). They told me I need a tube stack E J Bowman 1530-1TN1A, and they do not have this part in stock.
E J Bowman told me my oil cooler is not manufactured by EJ Bowman. E J Bowman sugested me to contact lancing marine.
I have also contact Olympic Drive in Canada. They can not help me.
Hydro Irish company ? I will check if they exist anymore.

 

[Tranona]

Lovely boat. Pretty sure that you won't find anything on Hydromarine as they went out of business over 40 years ago. The system had a brief period of popularity mainly linked to Faryman engines nd fitted to the Swedish Shipman 28 which was then built under licence in Ireland. Its attraction was that it gave flexibility of location of the engine in relation to the prop shaft which is presumably why C&C chose it as it would be difficult to install a conventional in line with the shaft as it is - well forward with a steep angle. However it is very inefficient and really was a solution looking for a problem as most boats manage with a simple straight drive or a V drive (like the Nic 35 from the same era). Nowadays a saildrive would be an obvious alternative. I seem to remember the design was originally Swedish and I found this varen4u.nl/pdfs/hydromarin/hydromarin.pdf although again not sure that company is still around.

Getting back to you original problem, your leak seems to be from the joint and is probably the result of corrosion of the mating faces. If you can't source a replacement assembly then it is possible it can be repaired by building up the corroded faces with weld and remachining, You don't say where you are located but you are more likely to fit the expertise to carry out such repairs with firms that repair industrial machinery.

 

[LittleSister]

Lovely boat. Pretty sure that you won't find anything on Hydromarine as they went out of business over 40 years ago. The system had a brief period of popularity mainly linked to Faryman engines nd fitted to the Swedish Shipman 28 which was then built under licence in Ireland. Its attraction was that it gave flexibility of location of the engine in relation to the prop shaft which is presumably why C&C chose it as it would be difficult to install a conventional in line with the shaft as it is - well forward with a steep angle. However it is very inefficient and really was a solution looking for a problem as most boats manage with a simple straight drive or a V drive (like the Nic 35 from the same era). . .

I have no knowledge of the different manufacturers, but it reminds me that years ago I got chatting to a chap who had arrived in my East Coast port (perhaps Shotley?), having sailed there in his friend's boat (Folkboat or similar?) from somewhere else (perhaps Scarborough?). He said the boat had a hydraulic drive, which some people didn't favour, but it made the boat remarkably smooth under power compared to a direct drive boat.

I have contacted A R Peachment (Graham Turner suggested me to do this). They told me I need a tube stack E J Bowman 1530-1TN1A, and they do not have this part in stock.
E J Bowman told me my oil cooler is not manufactured by EJ Bowman. E J Bowman sugested me to contact lancing marine.

Did Peachment perhaps mean that the Bowman stack 1530-1TN1A would be a suitable replacement for the failed stack you had, rather than that was what the model you had was?

So long as the dimensions and specs are compatible, the manufacturer is not important. Bowman are a leading manufacturer of heat-exchangers/coolers, and parts of these, for a wide range of applications. If they cannot provide a stack which will fit in your existing oil cooler housing, I am sure it is highly likely they would have in their range a suitable complete oil cooler assembly which would replace your entire existing cooler.

As Tranona says the existing one could probably be repaired by a suitable industrial/agricultural machinery engineering shop.

 

[Refueler]

As Tranona says the existing one could probably be repaired by a suitable industrial/agricultural machinery engineering shop.

I had already talked about having done erxactly that with my heat exchanger on my 'box' ...

As the guy who 're-tubed' my cooler said - there's nothing special about them .... basically a cylinder with two end plates holding the tubes .....

My replacement has less tubes but larger bore in the original outer cylinder case. He reckoned the original failed because it had too many tubes and they were thin / small bore to get them in and sufficient space between. His modified unit has worked perfectly for years and we expect many more years use.

To OP ... as long as the inlet / outlet pipes fit - the make of cooler really does not matter as long as it does its job.

 

[Leguill]

Thank you for all you contributions, Tranona, your deep research are very usefull for me. I will try to make repaired the oil cooler. And use the proper oil (I use to use atf dexron III). The boat is in Mayotte and I hope I will find there a suitable industrial/agricultural machinery engineering shop. Otherwise I will adapt an other oil cooler but I can not see the inlet /outler oil pipes connection. Only one is visible, the second one is inside the oil cooler housing wich is fixed to the oil tank ???

 

[Tranona]

Mayotte. Had to look that up. Great place to have a yacht but maybe not the best for getting things fixed. Hope you get it sorted.