Tips on furling a main

[sailaboutvic]

Vic, pretty certain we have exactly the same Selden system. I worried about jamming when we bought the boat and read lots of reports about people having problems after having sails modified or when sails aged. There were suggestions about raising the boom and keeping wind on one side. However ours has always worked perfectly (until tomorrow of course).

Outhaul car never displayed any signs of great friction
Gearbox has been greased a couple of times (but no change in ease of reefing)
I always lubricate the top bearing once a year as per manual (doubt it makes a huge difference)
Never bother to raise the boom, just keep a little tension on the outhaul.

The mast has a fair bit of pre-bend but that doesn't seem to cause problems for us. But I imagine foil tension would have a big impact. Perhaps we've been lucky and setup was always perfect.

Well worth keeping everything in good condition but my guess would be the sails (a complete stab in the dark though). Most complaints I've seen relate to problems after repairing the sail or use of old sails.

I guess the only way to be certain is to lubricate bottom & top (though they might just be gummed up through neglect), adjust tension (foil & sail) and see if problem is reduced. At least these checks avoid buying a new sail and finding problem still exists.

Our original main was always pretty shoddy and it fell apart in places due to wear & UV after only 5 years. However, it never failed to furl easily (but I guess it wasn't really old).

I replaced our main with a Crusader Vektron sail which is thinner, supposedly furls better and they were offering a good deal. It furls perfectly (but so did the original sail).

Not a very helpful post in identifying your problem, apart from confirming that the Selden in-mast furling system can work very well. Hope you manage to track down the problem.

Hi Mike
I ment to get you to try ours out last time we met to compair the two by I forgot all about it .
Thanks for the above info , still working on it , there so much conflict info on how to use them and why they some time don't work , all the info from guys here on how they use their we tried yed at one time or another including wind on port and starboard although over this season it's been over port side after our conversation with Seldom, tho the other day we did go back to starboard side and I have to admit on that day it was a bit better tho we Also stripped the outhaul car before going out . Maddrel the next job but not for a few days yet .
Last time up the mast I couldn't remember seeing a service hole for the top bearing . So need to get up and have a look , gear and top swivel was grease just a few months back .
Hoping to get half descent wind to day to give it another go .
Got a few more ideas from someone I met the other day I need to try .
His has the same as Seldom as mine and is option is mine is nowhere near as easy as his at anchor , trying out his I have to agree .
What's came to light after all the posting here is , it's not the way we using it , which at one time I tho it was and we was doing something very wrong not having Ny thing to do with them in the pass .
There may come a time when I have to do a total strip down , but that not going to be till the end of the year if that's becomes the case .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Reporting back on our problem , I always like to let everyone know how I got on and what I found ,
It may help some poor sod who has the same problem .

Anyway problem isn't 100 percent sorted but it's as good as it going to get for the time being .
As I said in a earlier posting , strip down of the outhaul car when some way to helping but it was still very hard to get in and it wasn't much better getting it out ,
Yesterday we removed the sail to check on the furler it felt a bit sloppy , half way up the mast I manage to stick a screw driver in the mast slot and poke it and it just didn't feel right , lots of play ,
We readjust it .
In 15 kts of wind it's much better my co skipper manage to pull it in and out mostly by her hand and pretty quick too .

We found by keeping the main sheet tight and just off the wind, a couple of turns on outhaul with the winch the wind did the rest .
Before we had to pull it all out with the loop and outhaul on the winch.

Furling the sail , again keeping the Main sheet tight and keep it 20 degrees off the wind and slight luffing up , little tension on the outhaul so the sail don't flap and just using winch first few turns she can then furl the rest in by hand .
(Both combinations we tried before and never worked )
Great improvement . It didn't seem to matter where the boom was placed or if the wind was starboard or port didn't seem to make any different but we are now bring it in and out with the wind on the starboard side , agree with some ,there less fiction .
We Hoping in strong winds there going to be a big difference.
I think a complete strip down of the gears this winter will improve it more .
The lesson learned is there seen to be no one way to use these furllers what ever works for you, keeping the leach tight helps the sail ,
but most important is to keep them service and adjust right the smallest amount of fiction can make a lot of different.
Thank everyone for your input .
Still think slab reefing better , for us anyway .

 

[vyv_cox]

Vic, what does adjustment entail?

 

[duncan99210]

I don't have a furling main but I do have a Seldon rig. When we bought the boat, it had 14mm lines fitted for the reefing which were very tight.... Looked the boom up on the Seldon website and the recommended line is 10mm, so thats what I fitted and things were suddenly a lot easier. That experience make me wonder if the furling and outhaul lines are the right thickness: if they're thicker than called for by Seldon, then it'll increase the friction something awful. Along with the other things you're discovering, perhaps thinner lines would make the final difference?

 

[sailaboutvic]

Vic, what does adjustment entail?

You can adjust it through the side of the mast , it just a matter of rising a tube that cover the adjustment then turning the winch while holding a screw driver in the locking tube to stop it turning , just like adjusting a bottle screw in some ways .
Then dropping the tube and screwing a locking screw .
Why it should be so sloppy I can't understand unless someone play with it at some point .

 

[sailaboutvic]

I don't have a furling main but I do have a Seldon rig. When we bought the boat, it had 14mm lines fitted for the reefing which were very tight.... Looked the boom up on the Seldon website and the recommended line is 10mm, so thats what I fitted and things were suddenly a lot easier. That experience make me wonder if the furling and outhaul lines are the right thickness: if they're thicker than called for by Seldon, then it'll increase the friction something awful. Along with the other things you're discovering, perhaps thinner lines would make the final difference?

I made a new endless loop myself end of last year and it's 10 mm dia plaited same as was on there , but as I read your posting I went straight to the manual to check , and it's right size . thanks never thought of that .
Not looking forward to dismantling the gear , working through a small hole , some thing going to end up inside the mast

 

[Vegable]

Glad you've got it almost sussed. We're now back from Canna and in wifi range again. With my boat, tightening up the mandrel has certainly improved things too. This morning I wandered around the moorings in Arisaig looking at the boom cars and how the 10mm outhaul was attached to the car. I've always used a stopper knot to attach the rope but noticed that every other boat I looked at had a form of loop so I've now changed mine to a bowline.
Incedently, my system is a 1994 Seldon "Furlin" in mast reefing unit fitted on a 38' Westerly and have separate outhaul and reefing ropes 10mm dia.
As someone previously asked what it's like to use, in spite of all the hassle, as a cruising sailor I love it. When it works, and mine isn't/ wasn't as difficult as Vics it's so easy to reef when I think "should I be reefing now" it's so easy to do and to take out that you don't think twice. Now that the mandrel is tighter I'm not getting the creases in the sail I used to have either. I never had any problems reefing, it was always when I was trying to set the sail.
Anyway, thanks to Vic for raising this topic and also to everyone who contributed as it's been a big help to me too.
Mike
.

 

[geem]

Just because one person has issues does not lead to the conclusion you are trying to draw. Others have no problem at all and in fact it is the furling mainsail that allows me to continue sailing in my old age.

I use this example often, but were you aware that over 90% of HRs over 38' built in the last 30 years or so are fitted with Selden in mast of the type under discussion? Would be unlikely all these discerning buyers have got it so wrong!

But you admit you havent reefed in over 25 kts. Vic is having problems in wind strength you have no experience of with your in mast furling so how can you be certain you won't have the same problems. Everyone to their own but for me this thread shows up the weakness of such as system. We sail regularly in winds above 25kts and we are very happy with our trouble free slab reefing system. We benefit from good sail performance regardless of wind strength with a fully battened main. Love it

 

[Tranona]

But you admit you havent reefed in over 25 kts. Vic is having problems in wind strength you have no experience of with your in mast furling so how can you be certain you won't have the same problems. Everyone to their own but for me this thread shows up the weakness of such as system. We sail regularly in winds above 25kts and we are very happy with our trouble free slab reefing system. We benefit from good sail performance regardless of wind strength with a fully battened main. Love it

You are leaving out the post I was responding to which was nothing about the ability to reef in strong winds.

You might also pay attention to the second paragraph given how keen you are of taking note of what people are doing with "traditional" boats in relation to ocean cruising. A significant number of the buyers of those very expensive HRs will be doing just that - so if they are so "weak" can you explain why the majority choose in mast furling?

Also suggest you read the whole of the thread where you will find the majority of owners (as opposed to non owners) are very satisfied with their systems. Vic's underlying problem is that the system is now over 20 years old and he reports the previous owners hardly used it. He has already made improvements following advice here and no doubt when he takes apart the gearbox, cleans and regreases it there will be further improvements, just as others have found. All gear needs to be maintained properly.

I try not to sail now in winds over 25 knots, although I had no problem with furling in higher wind speeds with my last boat. My reasons for having in mast are very clear as I have stated many times. I sail mostly on my own, keep the boat in a tight marina berth and aim to be able to get out sailing in moderate conditions any time I want without assistance. Therefore I specced my boat to do exactly what I want, so everything is geared to easy handling without leaving the cockpit. Easy furling sails allows this and I pull out sail with ease, and reef or furl away with minimum effort.

 

[NormanS]

But you admit you havent reefed in over 25 kts. Vic is having problems in wind strength you have no experience of with your in mast furling so how can you be certain you won't have the same problems. Everyone to their own but for me this thread shows up the weakness of such as system. We sail regularly in winds above 25kts and we are very happy with our trouble free slab reefing system. We benefit from good sail performance regardless of wind strength with a fully battened main. Love it

I think that you are completely mistaken. Occasionally people get punctures with their cars. Would you therefore condemn pneumatic tyres? It's good that you have no problems with your slab reefing. I have no problems with my in mast furling/reefing. So? Just in case you ask, I often reef or furl my main in 25 knots+. My mizzen is slab reefed, and although a much smaller area, is much more of a handful to reef or stow. So you see, I have direct comparison of the two systems, - have you?

 

[sailaboutvic]

Meltemi blowing all around us and we can't find anything more then 15 kts of wind , talk about sod law

There no doubt the cleaning of the outhaul car and adjust of the Furler had made a big improvement it's much easier to bring in and out but it not until we get it in a blow are we really going to know how much better it is , for sure it can't be any worst .
The boat is 2001 and although the other owner who have had it from new I somehow think he was one of these guys who just paid out to get thing done and sad to say there wasn't done very well .
A very nice guy he admin him self that he mainly used the forsail as his wife don't like sailing .

I can only blame my self as a rule we always keep our boats maintained well I spend as much money on maintaining my boats then I ever have on any house I own .
But with all the work we under took when we brought the boat , we over looked the in mast furler .
Between myself and my partner we strip the boat from top to bottom , new rigging and running rigging , every sea cock and hull fitting replace , both water tanks taken out and unblocked , ever hatch removed and re sealed , new windlass chain , anchor, winched all had to be service engine needed work and so did the generator which leaked more oil and water then when in .
The saildrive need new bearings seals ,both head and pipes had to be removed and sorted.the rudder bearing had to be removed in the water and new one specially made up,
the rudder stock had to be build higher so we could get extra seals in , wires had be traces , the list just when on and on , new Bimini, a totally winter cockpit cover’ bottom scrap and painted , that with out me deciding to build a water maker to add to the work , so as you can see we had our work cut out for us , all this done between oct when we got the boat and March when we set off again .
to increase the work load we had two boats to look after and move around , has we haven't sold our other boat.

As far as the furling goes we grease the sweval and the gearbox but that was it . Last year it was mostly light to mod wind sailing so we managed with it to be honesty never having anything to do with them before I just tho it's about right .
Read many story on the net of problems people have had with them .
This year we had some great hard winds days and days of 30 plus kts and it just got to the stage when we really struggle with it , we both experience sailor Christine from the age of 10 and I been at it for well over 40 years ,both have been solo sailor , but we still make the most silly mistake at times .

The reason I post was because of one of them mistakes , you know the old saying , if you thinking about reeling you left it to late , 25 kts up our back side and we about to change course onto a reach at the same time go around a headland ,we reef four turns in head sail we about to reef the Main ,for no love or money will it move , so we heading just into the wind to take the pressure off , that did nothing but made the sail flog , then Murphy shown his hand we was hit by gust of 45 kts even tho the head sail was reefed in it ripped it from luff To leach unfurling the top half while the bottom stay furled , left us fighting with the main now flogging wildly and still not going in , only after I when forward and used the handle did we get it in . I'm not going to say the state it when in .but it wasn't good , getting it in was needed to be done before we lost two sails .
So I say to tho who say " I just go head to wind and it goes in easy , or I just keep the wind on the port/starboard and easily reef in " maybe so in mod winds , but in tho winds that we some time encounter , it's a very different story, You only got seconds to sort it out a flogging sail before it becomes polishing rags .
This leads me to why I posted for help , I was sure something wasn't right .
Since we sorted the outhaul car and furler we gone back to trying different combination, in mod winds lifting the boom or dropping it , wind on S/P side, halyard lightly or tight , non seen to made any really different to ours any way.
I stand by (for now) what I said , slab reefing was much easier,
I could drop a sail quicker then putting three turns in this one , we never had to get out of the cockpit to put reefs in,
up to now the only way in strong winds was to wind it in so you had to go on deck, the only thing that quicker with our system is , now the wind will shot the sail out as soon as you put some of the way on the outhaul , which in some way isn't a advantage at times.
But thanks to everyone who commented even if it didn't apply to us it may apply and be helpful to some one else .
I sure Tranona right when he says the servicing of the gears will help.
It took a good days work but we did manage to repair the sail , but a new one is now on order ,
as it has a lot of UV damage and it's just a matter of time .