Tips on furling a main

How much back stay tension do you have?
When we had inmast the advice was to have minimum or no mast curve when furling. On that basis we had no problem.
 
seajayare said:
I have Z spars in-mast main so may not be relevant for you but I have found that I need to hold the boom over to starboard ( traveller to the starboard end if the track). This is so the furling line can run clear into the mast and not "foul" on the slot in the mast. when the boom is centred or to the port the furling line runs on the edge if the mast slot and the friction is surprising (even with nicely rounded entry slot). This has made a huge difference to the effort involved in furling the main.

I have the boom to starboard and the sail just on starboard tack and slack main & vang so the boom can lift as I furl which helps the outhaul car run along the boom

good luck
Click to expand...

Z Spars is a different design with a vertical helical winding mechanism. The Selden has a gearbox and the furling line comes off vertically.
 
I am sure you don't want to hear this, but here goes, I have had my Westerly Corsair 26 years, it came with retro fit inmast, I had very little trouble with it in fact it only jammed once
which was soon fixed. 15 years ago i very carelessly lost all my rig over the side, the replacement was a Seldon inmast rig, it has worked faultlessly ever since I now have an in mast battened main which is wonderful, I am not aware that I treat mine any differently than anybody else, to get the sail out I motor forward slowly with the wind on the starboard bow release the ratchet ( i have rigged this so i can do it from the cockpit) pull the outhaul the wind usually does the rest otherwise I haul it out by hand make it off on the winch and sset it to the desired tenntion depending on the point of sail and wind strength, once under way adjust the topping lift and kicker to create the required twist.
To put it away I motor slowly into the wind( engage the ratchet )with the wind on the starboard bow release the out hall and wind the sail away. I love mine and wish more people had the pleasure I get from Mine. If hard on the wind and the wind gets up, I release the main sheet to let the sail luff, let out a foot or two of the outhaul, haul the sail in as far as I can by hand then tighten on the winch, haul in the main sheet without dropping more than 1 Kt continuing on course. If you can wind it in at the mast how easily does it furl, are all the direction changes on the furling rope running freely when under load. Is it possible that the outhaul rope where it is attached to the boom traveler is rubbing on the boom creating drag. Sorry to go on but I wish everybody enjoyed their Seldon rig as much as I do.
Mike (77 in January Next so I need all the help I can get, I single hand all the time)
 
Last edited:
I've got Selden in-mast on my new boat. Had slab for the last x years. Experience so far is good, I love it, my (limited) experience with it includes reefing in F6+, gusting to 40 kts across the deck (faultless). But ...to the detractors: It's definitely worse than slab at some things and better at others. Buy what you prefer. Off topic.

For Vic's question, for furling.,... it's a lot easier with 2 people but OK single handed.

1. Being on starboard tack is essential. AWA about 40 degrees seems but ideal OK up to a broad reach, 120 degrees plus.
2. Boom about 90 degrees to mast
3. No mast bend, if you use backstay to bend the mast then slacken
4. Sail self supporting (topping lift slack), I use the vang to get the boom angle about right
5. Keep tension on the outhaul when furling (person 2)
6. Keep tension on the lazy end of the continuous furler

I use an electric winch on the furling line, I tail the lazy end of the continuous furler line, and crew to tail the outhaul. We've practiced a lot and are OK with it now. Manual winch would work fine (more effort).
 
I think you've been given incorrect advice about side to keep the wind when furling Vic. Wind on port side makes no sense because of the way the sail furls inside the mast. Certainly mine has been much easier when I keep the boat slightly on starboard tack. As said earlier I've not been in as much wind as you but still this made a huge difference.
My boom was replaced in 2007 and the traveller car is now on a track on the top of the boom, running on a ball bearing system. When I got the boom the whole setup was pretty bad. I removed the traveller car and cleaned the balls which made a big difference to friction in the system. They were simply gummed up with oil that had grit embedded in it. Cleaning them made a big difference.

My outhaul line went to the boom via organisers on the deck, a block at the mast base, and then through a stainless guide on the mast. This was probably the single biggest cause of friction in the whole set up and the only reason for it being there, as far as I could see, was to keep it out of the way of a winch handle if you were reefing at the mast. I took the line out of this guide so that it goes directly from the deck block to the underside of the boom and it made a big difference to furling and pulling the sail out.

Is your sail battened? Mine is by Sanders and has vertical grp rod battens, and alternate ones are full length.. No doubt they make it more difficult to furl the sail as the last couple of battens are tight to get into the mast but the system does work. When I got the boat the battens all had connectors join various lengths together. I got new, single piece battens (which are not available in Greece) and that also made a big difference as the total bulk inside the mast is reduced.

I think it's worth persevering with the in mast system as many people have it working without problems. I know you're much more experienced, and practical than me, but there must be a way to get it working to your satisfaction. Probably a case of finding the right combination of all the variables suggested on this thread!
 
Wow guys thanks everyone for your input , lot of stuff to think about and look at .
As said in #36 while waiting for some wind yesterday I strip the outhaul car and it made a different
The car was badly needed cleaning , the car it self was in good nick .
We had quite light winds never more then 13 kts over the deck and bring in and out with the wind on the starboard helped too , but my gut feeling is in stronger winds we still going to fight to get it in or even just to put a reef in it . ( hope I am wrong) .
If the outhaul is anything to go by I would say the gearing is well over due to be striped out , should had really done it last winter but we had so many jobs to do I never got around to it .
Going back to some comment made ,
the mast as no bend in it but it has a slight a rake which wouldn't make any different on the furller ,plus this has been checked by a rigger .

Like Pasarell we also have the outhaul rope going through SS loops on the mast where some fiction takes place but in our case it need to go through them to keep it in line with the blocks on the bottom of the mast .

Scala comments are interesting .
If we tried to reef in at 120 degrees our sail would be on the spreaders causing more problems ,
we usually do it round 60 to 90 the boom sit at about 90 without the topping life just on the kicker ,
We only keep very slight tension on the outhaul and more and we making the problem worst it's hard enough to get in . I agree if it was working as some say their do tension would be needed to stop the sail from being too loose
the way our has been there no need to keep tension on the in out going part of the loop , again more fiction, which is something we trying to avoid.
It going to be interesting to see what a sailmaker says about the Main but as I already said our Dutch friends who are with us at the moment cruising to gather who know more about sails then I will every know ( they design their own sails for their racing Cat , option is the sails fine , by the way the sail has no battens .
Well it's another day at the office , wind forecaster from the north 3 possible 4 see how it goes to day mid week will be interesting with force six's coming in , the real test if thing are any better will be then .
It started to seem like we have a combination of things that need seeing too .
Again thank everyone this problem has really become untenable for us in strong winds .
 
Last edited:
> On advice of sailmaker he had the sail recut to a more flat profile.

I'm surprised they are normally made flat so they can furl which means they have no drive and, as said, are a complete waste of time and money. We had one on a Benetteau 52 in Antigua Sailing Week and when furling it the sail jammed.
 
KellysEye said:
> On advice of sailmaker he had the sail recut to a more flat profile.

I'm surprised they are normally made flat so they can furl which means they have no drive and, as said, are a complete waste of time and money. We had one on a Benetteau 52 in Antigua Sailing Week and when furling it the sail jammed.
Click to expand...

Oh well, that proves what? :rolleyes:
 
I've got this as well and have had it since we bought the boat 5 years ago. And I've still not got to the bottom of it. At the beginning of the season I've ripped the tack using so much force.
I've recently found out something that might help but I haven't tested it yet. The vertical rod inside the mast that does the winding of the sail and includes the foil that the sail slides into has to be at a certain tension. Neither too tight nor too loose. Mine was much too loose. The rod shouldn't flap against the inside of the mast when the sail is removed. Mine banged away noisily.
Underneath where the sail slides into the foil there's a sleeve that slides upwards and under that is an adjustment screw which will tighten or loosen the rod.
As I said I haven't haven't tried mine since I adjusted it. But i'm on my boat now and hope to go out later today.
Mike
 
Vegable said:
I've got this as well and have had it since we bought the boat 5 years ago. And I've still not got to the bottom of it. At the beginning of the season I've ripped the tack using so much force.
I've recently found out something that might help but I haven't tested it yet. The vertical rod inside the mast that does the winding of the sail and includes the foil that the sail slides into has to be at a certain tension. Neither too tight nor too loose. Mine was much too loose. The rod shouldn't flap against the inside of the mast when the sail is removed. Mine banged away noisily.
Underneath where the sail slides into the foil there's a sleeve that slides upwards and under that is an adjustment screw which will tighten or loosen the rod.
As I said I haven't haven't tried mine since I adjusted it. But i'm on my boat now and hope to go out later today.
Mike
Click to expand...

See Post#16 second paragraph. It is called a mandrel. The rigger who set up my new boat emphasised the importance of getting this right (along with not bending the mast using the backstay adjuster). Getting the mandrel at the correct tension, the mast straight and halyard tension right are key to smooth furling.
 
Tranona said:
See Post#16 second paragraph. It is called a mandrel. The rigger who set up my new boat emphasised the importance of getting this right (along with not bending the mast using the backstay adjuster). Getting the mandrel at the correct tension, the mast straight and halyard tension right are key to smooth furling.
Click to expand...
That's my next job , to check Mandrel and adjust it if need be .
We given going out to day a miss , the wind only started to pick up at 1400 LT and by which time we can't be bothered, plus it's a lovely bay and the swimming good .
I started to wonder if I am expecting too Much of the system .
I watch a few YouTube vid . Most are filmed in Marina in light wind , it showing them hauling in and out with ease , the couple I seen furling at sea are using a winch and winding it in and again it's not been any real blow 13 kts or so Nowhere has it been mentioned to keep the wind on the port or starboard or does Seldom Manuel which is strange , taken all that into account , we are furling by hand not wanting to put pressure on the furling gear by winding it in when there some wind in the sail , if we do need to use a winch and at time we have then I go forwards and do it at the mast ,
is this where we going wrong? I assume that if I can furl my head sail which is much bigger by hand and it only working on a drum , I should be able to do the same with the main which is geared .
I remember someone saying here they use a electric hand at the time I didn't take much notice of it .
In light winds we also can get it in with as I said before some elbow grease and looking at the vid they seen to be using nearly as much force that we using in a Marina with the sail flapping .
I started to wonder if our isn't as bad as I making it out to be , and i just me expecting too much from it . Although we have had it jam a few times but that prob is getting it in as fast as we can in a blow not to blow the sail out .

The question has to be ask to them who say they work well , can you furl your in in say wind of 20 kts , that not a lot of wind , just by pulling on the loop and not using an handle on the winch?
 
Last edited:
At sea they are possibly keep the sail under tension to prevent wrinkles my experience (limited) on these is that the sail needs to be under tension to get it all in the very small area.

Be interesting to know if you like the system when you have used it a few times, just thinking on headsails we all have had some problem at some time or other furling these, it always seems to happen at the most inappropriate time. It the price of convenience.
 
sailaboutvic said:
That's my next job , to check Mandrel and adjust it if need be .
We given going out to day a miss , the wind only started to pick up at 1400 LT and by which time we can't be bothered, plus it's a lovely bay and the swimming good .
I started to wonder if I am expecting too Much of the system .
I watch a few YouTube vid . Most are filmed in Marina in light wind , it showing them hauling in and out with ease , the couple I seen furling at sea are using a winch and winding it in and again it's not been any real blow 13 kts or so Nowhere has it been mentioned to keep the wind on the port or starboard or does Seldom Manuel which is strange , taken all that into account , we are furling by hand not wanting to put pressure on the furling gear by winding it in when there some wind in the sail , if we do need to use a winch and at time we have then I go forwards and do it at the mast ,
is this where we going wrong? I assume that if I can furl my head sail which is much bigger by hand and it only working on a drum , I should be able to do the same with the main which is geared .
I remember someone saying here they use a electric hand at the time I didn't take much notice of it .
In light winds we also can get it in with as I said before some elbow grease and looking at the vid they seen to be using nearly as much force that we using in a Marina with the sail flapping .
I started to wonder if our isn't as bad as I making it out to be , and i just me expecting too much from it . Although we have had it jam a few times but that prob is getting it in as fast as we can in a blow not to blow the sail out .

The question has to be ask to them who say they work well , can you furl your in in say wind of 20 kts , that not a lot of wind , just by pulling on the loop and not using an handle on the winch?
Click to expand...

Yes, 20 - 30 knots, no problem.
 
paulieraw said:
...Be interesting to know if you like the system when you have used it a few times, just thinking on headsails we all have had some problem at some time or other furling these, it always seems to happen at the most inappropriate time. It the price of convenience.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I like mine. I especially appreciated it when reefing several times one day, down to a scrap of main, from the comfort and safety of the cockpit. It works fine (new boat though). May well not be as reliable after a few seasons.
 
sailaboutvic said:
Just by pulling or are you having to wind it around a winch and use a handle Norman ?
Click to expand...

Normally just by pulling on the endless line. I find furling no bother at all. Occasionally, when pulling out, it doesn't want to come, but then I just tweek the "out" on the endless line, and that sorts it. I do have a small hand winch, but seldom use it.

Again, occasionally when furling in a lot of wind, the last bit near the clew may be a bit untidy, so once anchored, I just pull it out a little, and wind it in with more care.

Once you get it working properly, you'll love it.
 
Vic, pretty certain we have exactly the same Selden system. I worried about jamming when we bought the boat and read lots of reports about people having problems after having sails modified or when sails aged. There were suggestions about raising the boom and keeping wind on one side. However ours has always worked perfectly (until tomorrow of course).

Outhaul car never displayed any signs of great friction
Gearbox has been greased a couple of times (but no change in ease of reefing)
I always lubricate the top bearing once a year as per manual (doubt it makes a huge difference)
Never bother to raise the boom, just keep a little tension on the outhaul.

The mast has a fair bit of pre-bend but that doesn't seem to cause problems for us. But I imagine foil tension would have a big impact. Perhaps we've been lucky and setup was always perfect.

Well worth keeping everything in good condition but my guess would be the sails (a complete stab in the dark though). Most complaints I've seen relate to problems after repairing the sail or use of old sails.

I guess the only way to be certain is to lubricate bottom & top (though they might just be gummed up through neglect), adjust tension (foil & sail) and see if problem is reduced. At least these checks avoid buying a new sail and finding problem still exists.

Our original main was always pretty shoddy and it fell apart in places due to wear & UV after only 5 years. However, it never failed to furl easily (but I guess it wasn't really old).

I replaced our main with a Crusader Vektron sail which is thinner, supposedly furls better and they were offering a good deal. It furls perfectly (but so did the original sail).

Not a very helpful post in identifying your problem, apart from confirming that the Selden in-mast furling system can work very well. Hope you manage to track down the problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

M
Raymarine Axiom+ issue
Replies
2
Views
216
geem
geem
zoidberg
Rigging Checklist
Replies
0
Views
121
zoidberg
zoidberg

Share this page

Top