Tips on furling a main

A1Sailor said:
What happens to the battens if the sail is fully battened? Do they roll round the in-mast pole when you start to reef?
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There are many variations, but vertical so they do go round the mandrel. Some are flexible, some thin rods, some are full height but others short and near the head to create some roach and so increase area. The latter is more common on boats that were originally designed for conventional sails so lose area when fitted with in mast. However boats like mine which were designed for both types have the same mainsail area with either system so tend not to have battens.
 
pvb said:
If the wind is off the starboard bow, the sail has an easier run into the mast.
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Hi
A conversation I had with Seldom last year , they said to keep a bit of wind on the port side of the sail . ( in , out or reefing )
Now if you read they instructions it doesn't say anything about that , well not what I can find any way ,
It also say about keeping the leach tight , well if you have 25 30 kts of true wind in your sail and a tight leach it's like trying to furl a sail undersail , which make no sense to me at all , one would tho you need to be able to spill a little to make it easier and take the pressure away from the furling gear .
I hoping for some moderate wind before the big blow so I can start from scratch, at the same time try it with wind on the starboard although I have tried that in the past without any luck , but I am grabbing at straw now and willing to give naything a go.
 
Just a thought, is your mast dead straight all the way up? Many years ago I was on a flotilla holiday in Greece on the first season that their boats had been retro fitted with in mast furling.
The rig had been set up by the flotilla skipper with a pre bend in the mast. This meant that in light airs the sail could be furled but any weight in the wind meant that it was almost impossible to bring in the sail.
I sailed most of the time on genoa only!

Andy
 
pvb said:
They're vertical battens.
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Tranona said:
There are many variations, but vertical so they do go round the mandrel. Some are flexible, some thin rods, some are full height but others short and near the head to create some roach and so increase area. The latter is more common on boats that were originally designed for conventional sails so lose area when fitted with in mast. However boats like mine which were designed for both types have the same mainsail area with either system so tend not to have battens.
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Ah. Thanks. Like many others I know nothing about in-mast reefing.
 
Minn said:
I can't offer any useful comment but I'd like to thank Vic for making me (and others) aware of the defects of this system. I sometimes see people under headsail only with what appears to be in mast furling and I wondered why. Now I know.
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I think that's a bit unfair. The fact that some people seem to have problems with a system, doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with the system. Some people can't cope with the gears on a manual car, and choose to have an automatic. That doesn't prove that there's anything wrong with manual cars.

It's like Eberspacher heaters, people post when they have problems, but the thousands of people with perfectly functioning ones, are not likely to start a post saying, "Hey, my Eberspacher is working perfectly".

People have already pointed out several things that Vic can attend to. He seems confused as to which side, if any, the wind should be coming from. I wonder if he simply has his halliard too tight. There are lots of tweeks to be tried before condemning the system. I'm sure that when the idea of furling headsails, which are basically very similar in concept, first came out, some people were equally dismissive.

Yes, there are some disadvantages, there is a loss of area, there is slightly more weight aloft, but the advantages, like only having to hoist the sail once a year, and the ease, yes ease, in furling either completely or partially, certainly in my experience, easily outweigh any disadvantages.
 
Minn said:
I can't offer any useful comment but I'd like to thank Vic for making me (and others) aware of the defects of this system. I sometimes see people under headsail only with what appears to be in mast furling and I wondered why. Now I know.
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Personal experience is the opposite for me. We'll whip out our main given the slightest opportunity whilst others near us with slab reefing can't be bothered unless it's a sure thing. I'm fully aware of the downsides of mast furling but our main is certainly out a lot more than most. For singlehanding there is no doubt it is a positive.
 
Minn said:
I can't offer any useful comment but I'd like to thank Vic for making me (and others) aware of the defects of this system. I sometimes see people under headsail only with what appears to be in mast furling and I wondered why. Now I know.
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Just because one person has issues does not lead to the conclusion you are trying to draw. Others have no problem at all and in fact it is the furling mainsail that allows me to continue sailing in my old age.

I use this example often, but were you aware that over 90% of HRs over 38' built in the last 30 years or so are fitted with Selden in mast of the type under discussion? Would be unlikely all these discerning buyers have got it so wrong!
 
First I like to say there no doubt that slab reefing in my view is better , for a start you can get a better shape to the sail ,
on my Dufour 385 I could drop the sail quicker then furling this one in , the times it does work ok ., without leaving the cockpit .
Secondly , these systems must work ok as there so many about ,, and I agree many don't seen to have problems with them , but the times I seen people having problems in a strong wind ,so I have to wonder if the slight thing not set right ( sail,gearing,tension) in winds above avg is when the problem shows up .

I having a problem with mine for some reason and that's why I have posted here for tips , now if it the sail that needs replacing or something in the gearing or possibly something I not doing is another matter , last year the winds most of the time where moderate if not light and we manage but this year we had some great sailing in very strong winds and we really are having problems with it , some one suggested the mast , I replaced all the rigging myself when we brought the boat not long after we had it check and agin in Malta the rigging and mast was check as we was getting some vibration, it turn out not to be the rigging by without a sail the furling tend to shake when the wind hit it from a certain direction. ( should had read the manual) .
This afternoon to day we should get around 20 kt true wind , we in no rush to go anywhere so we off to play a bit more , I need to make sure it's nothing I doing before getting the sail looked at , as I already know what the sailmake going to say ,but I don't want to line his pocket with a few K to find out afterwards the problem is still there .
In my view the sail fine , it set flat and it's not bagged , that's not to say there something in the cut that I not seeing .
Pvb... I taken note of what you said and we will again try and furl it in with the wind on the starboard side ,
I willing to try any thing .
This is really spoiling our sailing in strong winds which we love to do .
 
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One item that could be causing some fiction is the outhaul , see photo , it run inside the boom, I not taken it a part but it looks like it just metal to metal as it runs along the boom , ( any thought guys)
I shall look into some kind of car system .
 
sailaboutvic said:
One item that could be causing some fiction is the outhaul , see photo , it run inside the boom, I not taken it a part but it looks like it just metal to metal as it runs along the boom , ( any thought guys)
I shall look into some kind of car system .
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That looks horrendous, and must have a lot of friction. Mine has a car with recirculating balls (oooh!)
However, that hasn't changed since last year, when you say you had less bother. If you have previously had a conventional sail, you will be accustomed to swigging up the halliard. You don't do that with in mast. Try easing off the halliard.
 
Hi Norman ,
We always had a problem from day one , it just last year the winds where light to mod most of the season and it is possible to get it in and out in tho winds , but just to explain how hard it is in a mod wind , we are having to put a leg onto the cockpit side and heav as hard as we can to get it in , this can take a while even just to reef , let alone to get the whole sail in ,so you can imagine what it like in a good blow .
We done everything by the book and we been thinking out side the box for other ways .
Usually when I get as far as posting for help here it's when I run out of ideas .

I agree the outhaul car don't look good and it's not helping the problem .

With no sail on we can turn the furling with two fingers but that means nothing .
 
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As I suggested earlier, I spray mine with Teflon spray from time to time. Have you checked the wheels and axles for wear?
 
Tranona said:
As I suggested earlier, I spray mine with Teflon spray from time to time. Have you checked the wheels and axles for wear?
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Hi T thanks for the earlier suggestion , I did just that this morning , wheels and Axles are fine no wear , but it looks like it's been a lòt of years since. They seen day light .
On the move now , wind not as strong as forecaster 13 kts over the deck ,furled in and out a few times , even tried what Pvb sugestioned , to be honest it's hard to tell on this light wind but yes I wouldn't say it's a bit better , and ever little bit helps ,
only once we get into strong winds we going to know how much differently there is.
I am really tempted to strip down the gear but being on the move if any thing brake or some thing rolls over board I be in a right mess , so that will have to wait till winter .
I do plain to ask the sailmaker his option on the sail , but at the moment we cruising with Dutch friends and not only they are both races , he design the sails on the 15 mt cat they build them self and he seen to agree that our main looks fine .
And sets well .
 
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pvb said:
As the sail rolls on to the starboard side of the furling spar, keeping the wind on the starboard side means there's less friction as the sail goes through the slot in the mast.

View attachment 71857
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This is probably going to be a dumb post but something doesn't add up to me. If Selden told Vic to keep the wind on the port side, looking at Pvb's diagram that looks to me that it would make it harder to furl as you will be winding the sail across the starboard edge of the mast gap rather than straight through the gap.

I'm sure Vic has this right as well, but as he is desperate I'll throw it out there. The sail is wound the right way on the furler? The dead giveaway on that is the ratchet doesn't hold of course, but don't ask how I found that out :ambivalence:

I'm not a big fan of in-mast furling but I've only used one on a charter. We were told the tool to free a jam was in the kitchen cupboard. It was the wooden spatula. One of the other boats
had to have assistance when theirs jammed, they hadn't got a spatula :D
 
I have Z spars in-mast main so may not be relevant for you but I have found that I need to hold the boom over to starboard ( traveller to the starboard end if the track). This is so the furling line can run clear into the mast and not "foul" on the slot in the mast. when the boom is centred or to the port the furling line runs on the edge if the mast slot and the friction is surprising (even with nicely rounded entry slot). This has made a huge difference to the effort involved in furling the main.

I have the boom to starboard and the sail just on starboard tack and slack main & vang so the boom can lift as I furl which helps the outhaul car run along the boom

good luck
 
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