Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
A hobie mirage drive on a tender might well do. But so far, only on kayaks.
Time to buy a new outboard.
- Thread starter Ian_Edwards
- Start date
salad
Well-Known Member
You potentially get rid of one can of worms with an engine, only to replace it with worries about battery conditioning and longevity. Batteries have their own set of problems to deal with and require a level of care if you want to keep it optimal. Trickle charging and balancing, for example.
I've used electric trolling motors on bass boats in the US and they were brilliant (and quick) for approaching a shoal of bass on a lake, felt like a ninja. These were day boats and each day the battery was maintained ashore. I'm not sure they are a problem free solution for tenders, but since I've never owned a tender or yacht, I can't truly say. Soon to be remedied, but I can't say I'd looked at electric outboards, so am a little sceptical given my experience with other electric solutions (such as cars and power tools).
jlavery
Well-Known Member
We've had an ePropulsion for 1.5 seasons now, and very happy with it. As mentioned by others, no more petrol hassle, and can store the engine down below.
We've got solar and two 180ah AGM batteries as our house bank. We have fitted a higher power 12V socket on the boat, and use that to charge using the ePropulsion solar/12V charger which came with the outboard. This takes around 5 hours to fully charge the battery (haven't got an exact figure). We've also got the 240V charger on board, to use when connected to shore power.
There is the concern regarding battery longevity/faults etc., but so far, so good!
We've got solar and two 180ah AGM batteries as our house bank. We have fitted a higher power 12V socket on the boat, and use that to charge using the ePropulsion solar/12V charger which came with the outboard. This takes around 5 hours to fully charge the battery (haven't got an exact figure). We've also got the 240V charger on board, to use when connected to shore power.
There is the concern regarding battery longevity/faults etc., but so far, so good!
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Here is another problem (again I speak as an electric enthusiast, both on the water and on the road)...dinghies are often used very infrequently, sometimes months go by without using mine....and often when I do use it I just use the oars...but lithium batteries don’t like being stored at high capacity, it reduces their life...so when you need your dingy and motor, you haven’t got full range and the charging rate is slow (especially the Torqeedo) and especially when filling the top half of the battery.
However, I would never go back to having petrol on a diesel boat..that’s a form of madness
However, I would never go back to having petrol on a diesel boat..that’s a form of madness
LiftyK
Well-Known Member
I’m told by an owner that the ePropulsion will automatically discharge its battery to a safe storage level if the battery is left full for some days.
Helidan
Well-Known Member
I'm currently looking to sell my 6hp Mariner and going electric. I'm very tempted to give the Thrustme Kicker a try but I'm not sure how it would cope with the tides that we experience out on our mooring. E Propulsion Spirit I'm sure would cope easily but it's a rather expensive beast.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
There is also the new Ultima 3.0
Ian_Edwards
Well-Known Member
Looking at the YouTube reviews comparing the Torqeedo and the ePropulsion, and bearing in mind that these are tests on new outboards, often in ideal conditions, the eProppulsion looks the better option. They both give the same speed, but the ePropulsion seems to out score the Torqeedo in every other respect.
Compared to my existing Suzuki DF2.5, which weighs in at an advertised 13.5kg, no oil, no petrol, so probably 14.5kg in use. the ePropulsion weighs a total of 19.3kg, although this is split into 10.6kg for the main body and 8.7kg for the battery, so it is heavier than my 4 stroke.
I'm unsure about Bouba's comments about battery management, I'd expect, perhaps somewhat naively, that the manufactures would have included battery management in their design, if they haven't then they will expect to see a large number of warrantee claims quite quickly.
The advertising blurb say it is comparable with a 3.5hp 4 stroke, any real world experience on how that pans out?
Compared to my existing Suzuki DF2.5, which weighs in at an advertised 13.5kg, no oil, no petrol, so probably 14.5kg in use. the ePropulsion weighs a total of 19.3kg, although this is split into 10.6kg for the main body and 8.7kg for the battery, so it is heavier than my 4 stroke.
I'm unsure about Bouba's comments about battery management, I'd expect, perhaps somewhat naively, that the manufactures would have included battery management in their design, if they haven't then they will expect to see a large number of warrantee claims quite quickly.
The advertising blurb say it is comparable with a 3.5hp 4 stroke, any real world experience on how that pans out?
Bouba
Well-Known Member
To clarify...Torqeedo doesn’t appear to have any battery management (unless it’s been recently added)...E-propulsion does...I have a Torqeedo and would never go back to petrol (unless I was on a petrol boat)... I just want people to realize that there are two sides to e-outboards and that you should invest with your eyes open
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
You’re saying the torquedo leaves battery management entirely down to the user? That’s pretty shocking, my Makita tools have battery management. If theres nothing, they’ll be dealing with a vast number of faulty batteries.
Edit
actually they do have management, and a great deal of info back to the user. Deep discharge prevention is the most important part, plus charging control.
Last edited:
Bouba
Well-Known Member
There was a battery recall but that was down to water entry...the info that came with Torqeedo (unless it’s been updated) never mentioned the perils of storing a fully charged battery...and unlike the e-Propulsion it doesn’t self discharge if it’s been stored too long. Also, if I recall correctly, the e-Propulsion charges faster
nestawayboats
Well-Known Member
There are a few things to clarify here but first (due to previous controversy!) I should make it clear Nestaway Boats is a dealer for both Epropulsion and Torqeedo electric outboards, and have just taken in some stock of the ThrustMe Kicker too (despite my reservations about the web traffic the name may bring!). We post occasionally when we think our knowledge will contribute to a thread.
So with apologies for not attributing comments to posters where relevant:
- "They do the same speed". Yes, near enough the Torqeedo 1103 and the Epropulsion Spirit PLUS do the same thing in the water, in terms of driving a boat along, but the Epropulsion does it for quite a bit longer. They will use the same power at the same speed on the same boat but as the Epropulsion's battery capacity is 1276Wh against the Torqeedo's 916Wh the Epropulsion will do it for nearly 40% longer.
- The ThrustMe Kicker is a much smaller and lighter motor (4.4kg inc battery) yes but that's because you are getting a lot less motor and battery. This may well be fine for some applications and the lack of weight is massively appealing (which is why we've taken it on) but its maximum continuous output is 500W and if you run it at that it'll only last half an hour. If you run the Torqeedo 1103 at 500W it'll last approx 1hr 50 mins and if you run the Epropulsion Spirit PLUS at 500W it'll last 2.5 hrs (ie 5 times as long as ThrustMe at same power/speed).
- The ThrustMe is the one that looks like something like a small outboard. The Temo is "the new French one" and is more akin to a "long tail", mounts on an oarlock fitting and has similar power/battery capacity to the ThrustMe.
- "Epropulsion battery floats Torqeedo doesn't." The Epropulsion Spirit PLUS battery floats, the Torqeedo 1103 one doesn't. But the Torqeedo 603 battery does float, mainly because it has less capacity (500Wh against the 1103's 916Wh) so is lighter but in the same size case.
- The Torqeedo 603 so far as we can tell is the same motor as the 1103 but downrated (presumably by software), and supplied with a smaller battery capacity. The leg is certainly the same weight so it's very unlikely it's a different motor.
- "Epropulsion has battery management Torqeedo doesn't." Well they definitely both have "managed" charging but the big difference is what happens if you leave them alone fully charged (which lithium batteries don't really like, long term). The Torqeedo stays where you left it apart from very gentle losses that all batteries have. The Epropulsion after a month or so gently and deliberately discharges itself down to about 60% then goes into a deep sleep. The Epropulsion looks after itself better but this could on occasion be inconvenient as it won't be full next time you want to use it and if you don't have a charger you can't wake it up.... Although it should be pointed out that the Epropulsion battery at 60% will still have approx 750Wh against the Torqeedo's fully charged 916Wh.
- Of course it varies immensely but as a general rule of thumb we're finding a typical yacht tender user will use 4-500Wh battery per day, so with the Torqeedo you typically get a couple of days before needing to charge and probably three days with the Epropulsion. The ThrustMe and Temo would presumably only be bought by those with lower usage requirements as they only have around 250Wh of capacity.
- "Electric won't be powerful enough." We consider this to be incorrect. The 1000W motors (Epropulsion and Torqeedo) will definitely push a 2.7m dinghy with three people in it against a chop. Arguably more effectively than your 2.5hp petrol outboard, because they have loads of torque utilised to turn a relatively large propeller relatively slowly. The only time the 1kW electric outboards seem less powerful than 2.5-3hp petrols is on very lightly laden (ie one person aboard) dinghies that plane easily. The 1kW electrics won't achieve planing speeds but push surprisingly heavy loads surprisingly effectively. Including my Sadler 29 at up to 3.3 knots, for example.
Ian, Nestaway Boats Ltd
So with apologies for not attributing comments to posters where relevant:
- "They do the same speed". Yes, near enough the Torqeedo 1103 and the Epropulsion Spirit PLUS do the same thing in the water, in terms of driving a boat along, but the Epropulsion does it for quite a bit longer. They will use the same power at the same speed on the same boat but as the Epropulsion's battery capacity is 1276Wh against the Torqeedo's 916Wh the Epropulsion will do it for nearly 40% longer.
- The ThrustMe Kicker is a much smaller and lighter motor (4.4kg inc battery) yes but that's because you are getting a lot less motor and battery. This may well be fine for some applications and the lack of weight is massively appealing (which is why we've taken it on) but its maximum continuous output is 500W and if you run it at that it'll only last half an hour. If you run the Torqeedo 1103 at 500W it'll last approx 1hr 50 mins and if you run the Epropulsion Spirit PLUS at 500W it'll last 2.5 hrs (ie 5 times as long as ThrustMe at same power/speed).
- The ThrustMe is the one that looks like something like a small outboard. The Temo is "the new French one" and is more akin to a "long tail", mounts on an oarlock fitting and has similar power/battery capacity to the ThrustMe.
- "Epropulsion battery floats Torqeedo doesn't." The Epropulsion Spirit PLUS battery floats, the Torqeedo 1103 one doesn't. But the Torqeedo 603 battery does float, mainly because it has less capacity (500Wh against the 1103's 916Wh) so is lighter but in the same size case.
- The Torqeedo 603 so far as we can tell is the same motor as the 1103 but downrated (presumably by software), and supplied with a smaller battery capacity. The leg is certainly the same weight so it's very unlikely it's a different motor.
- "Epropulsion has battery management Torqeedo doesn't." Well they definitely both have "managed" charging but the big difference is what happens if you leave them alone fully charged (which lithium batteries don't really like, long term). The Torqeedo stays where you left it apart from very gentle losses that all batteries have. The Epropulsion after a month or so gently and deliberately discharges itself down to about 60% then goes into a deep sleep. The Epropulsion looks after itself better but this could on occasion be inconvenient as it won't be full next time you want to use it and if you don't have a charger you can't wake it up.... Although it should be pointed out that the Epropulsion battery at 60% will still have approx 750Wh against the Torqeedo's fully charged 916Wh.
- Of course it varies immensely but as a general rule of thumb we're finding a typical yacht tender user will use 4-500Wh battery per day, so with the Torqeedo you typically get a couple of days before needing to charge and probably three days with the Epropulsion. The ThrustMe and Temo would presumably only be bought by those with lower usage requirements as they only have around 250Wh of capacity.
- "Electric won't be powerful enough." We consider this to be incorrect. The 1000W motors (Epropulsion and Torqeedo) will definitely push a 2.7m dinghy with three people in it against a chop. Arguably more effectively than your 2.5hp petrol outboard, because they have loads of torque utilised to turn a relatively large propeller relatively slowly. The only time the 1kW electric outboards seem less powerful than 2.5-3hp petrols is on very lightly laden (ie one person aboard) dinghies that plane easily. The 1kW electrics won't achieve planing speeds but push surprisingly heavy loads surprisingly effectively. Including my Sadler 29 at up to 3.3 knots, for example.
Ian, Nestaway Boats Ltd
gregcope
Well-Known Member
I have had a torequedo 1003 for nearly ten years.
It easily drove a 2.7M inflatable (with inflatable keel floor). Was not as quick as a 3.3 two stroke, but sufficient. This is in all conditions including wind+tide.
Quiet, clean, easy to dismantle and store.
Range anxiety is a thing, but in reality never an issue.
Bar cleaning and the odd bit of grease it has not had any servicing. Never needed to strip and clean the carb. Never fails to start.
I appreciate they are expensive to buy initially. Running costs are trivial.
for the OPs usecase either the torquedo or the epropulsion will be great.
It easily drove a 2.7M inflatable (with inflatable keel floor). Was not as quick as a 3.3 two stroke, but sufficient. This is in all conditions including wind+tide.
Quiet, clean, easy to dismantle and store.
Range anxiety is a thing, but in reality never an issue.
Bar cleaning and the odd bit of grease it has not had any servicing. Never needed to strip and clean the carb. Never fails to start.
I appreciate they are expensive to buy initially. Running costs are trivial.
for the OPs usecase either the torquedo or the epropulsion will be great.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Running costs aren’t always that trivial.....it cost me €13000 for a new generator ?
