Time for wooden boat to seal

[Richard D]

Seen a 1953 wooden carvel built boat been out of the water for 7 years is it doubtful it will seal up. If I get it in the water before I buy it how long should I wait to see if it will seal and if it does not completely what amount is acceptable as a normal for this type of boat. The boat deck has just been replanked with new teak but has been covered with a type of fabric is this normal or would this be to hide the planking.


Richard

 

[pcatterall]

If I recall correctly relaunched boats will be 90% there in 24 hours and as good as possible in a couple of days.
Canvas over wood decks was quite common, often painted.

 

[Jcorstorphine]

It all depends

Seen a 1953 wooden carvel built boat been out of the water for 7 years is it doubtful it will seal up. If I get it in the water before I buy it how long should I wait to see if it will seal and if it does not completely what amount is acceptable as a normal for this type of boat. The boat deck has just been replanked with new teak but has been covered with a type of fabric is this normal or would this be to hide the planking.


Richard

My answer to your first question regarding the length of time to take up is along the lines of “how long is a bit of string”.

It all depends on the hull construction, There are basically four types of construction, clinker or overlapping such as ships lifeboats which were notorious for leaking like sieves when first launched, next would be conventional carvel where the gaps between planks are caulked with cotton and putty (ish) compound, then there is the more upmarket hull construction where the gaps were filled with wooden splines. Lastly there is the double or triple diagonal where the planks are set at 90 degrees to each other and inter-spaced with canvas or calico.

My Father had a ship’s lifeboat which was double diagonal and never took on a drop of water when launched. One of my Father’s friends had a clinker lifeboat which had to be run up on the beach after launching and allowed to swell the planking otherwise it would have sunk. This took about 3 days

Other factor is the species of wood, Father’s boat was teak and it never dried out, Dad’s friend’s boat was larch which did dry out.

You need to look at the hull, look at the caulking lines, look for any splits or cracks. Make sure you give the boat a really good thick coat of antifouling, at least two coats which will slow down water ingress a bit and buy an automatic bilge pump such as the new Jabsco. Look at the last plank where the hull joins the keel, can be a bit iffy in this area.

You other question was that the deck was covered with some form of material, this will be canvas and was the norm when I was a boy (in the 50s) might be some form of Cascover which was nylon set in epoxy.

John

Love wooden boats so long as they are someone else’s!

 

[stuhaynes]

Seen a 1953 wooden carvel built boat been out of the water for 7 years is it doubtful it will seal up. If I get it in the water before I buy it how long should I wait to see if it will seal and if it does not completely what amount is acceptable as a normal for this type of boat. The boat deck has just been replanked with new teak but has been covered with a type of fabric is this normal or would this be to hide the planking.


Richard

This is a 'how long is a piece of string' question. If it was built in 1953 (3 years after ours) you need to check the condition of the hull timbers and the joints. I know from my own experience. In 2007 we took ours out of the water for approx 5 weeks. If you remember the floods that year you'll not be surprised that we were out of the water for 5 months. When we put her back in the water our big bilge pump came in within 10 minutes, then 12, 15, 20 and on. Within 36 hours she'd taken up, and no problem. Last year we were out of the water 6 weeks. I would have bet money that we would not leak. I'd have lost the bet! 12 or so hours later she was (and is) fine.

If you're going to buy an old wooden boat you need to accept that they ain't happy out the water.... Check the condition of the hull (and all the timber it's fitted onto), or get it surveyed!

If it helps, we would definitely buy another old wooden boat.

 

[exfinnsailor]

Suppose it depends how much time you want to spent on your project and if you want to go anywhere. A friend of mine always says you will spend 10 times what you paid for it just looking after it. We live miles from ours and do not have the time to look after a wooden boat.

Some leak like a sieve when launched and as has been said a good pump will be necessary. Get it lowered in and leave it in the slings until you are confident it's not going to sink

Seven years is along time out of the water so I would have a really good look round and get it properly surveyed first.

 

[tillergirl]

I don't think it was ever 'normal' to cover a teak deck. Why would you? Cover a pine or ply deck? Yes of course, normal practice. If it's covered suspect that it is not teak. If it is teak why can't you see it? Very odd.

Take up time - as others have said, who knows? If its carvel, what is the state of the caulking? If firm but cracked some lead putty before painting is simple to apply - red lead below the water line, white lead above. OK it will pout as the vessel takes up but it will assist and you can make her look lovely next spring. What do the Hood Ends look like (where the planks meet the stem and transom). Excessive drying and any splitting of the plank ends here would cause me to think hard.

It can look daunting. You can get little jets of water, obvious gurgling and so on. But generally they stop. Four hours after launch I was looking at a little stream and planning to overnight on board. Five minutes later, I looked back at the leak and it had stopped.

Having been out that long, you need to plan for a bit of a campaign on launching - hanging in the strops as suggested is a good idea, or launch her where the slip/mooring will dry. That way you can pump her while the tide is in and once the tide has left leave a good bit in her until just before the the tide returns. Worth borrowing a largish auto pump and having power available.

Some pictures would help.

 

[Tranona]

Not a lot to add to the comments above. It all depends on the method of construction, the quality of the materials and the way it has been stored. I have seen some wooden boats sound as a bell and no leaks even after long periods ashore, and others that leak after just the "normal" winter lay up.

Boats built in that period tend to be poor in both construction and material because good timber was getting scarce and labour costs were rising leading to short cuts in building. But, as ever, there was good and bad - the very best such as the boats built by top class yards were superb and expensive, but at the lower end were often cheap and cheerful.

Boats from that period are not for the faint hearted or novice!

 

[rob2]

Some years ago, there was an Eastern European, carvel wooden Folkboat next to us in the yard. It had been ashore on a trailer for a few years and after a slap of paint the owner put her on the beach to launch. Well the water rose but the boat didn't, despite the fire pump on the foredeck. Next tide she was back next to us... It was noticeable how the water now leaking out of the hull slowed a bit, but never stopped.

After a particularly strong brew of tea, we reasoned that a full recaulking was the only answer. He pointed out that he could rake out only one seam a day and his wife's work rosta limited how often he could get down to the yard. She was a nurse in casualty. The penny dropped - in the days before Fein or such tools, two lads with reciprocating plaster saws had the planking routed out and the next day saw it all filled with Sikaflex. She tightened up in one tide.

Rob.

 

[Lakesailor]

This bloke didn't know about taking-up. He launched and took it round to his mooring and left it there. When I launched and went to my mooring this was all I saw

It was a clinker Kestrel

 

[theoldsalt]

Often when a cavel built boat has been ashore for several years the planks will never take up. Also the gaps between the planks are too large to caulk and splines are the usual remedy. The trouble is that if the boat is launched and the planks do not take up fully then it is too late to spline until the planks have fully dried out again which may take ages.

The advise of a specialist (wooden planked hull) surveyor should be sought for advise before launching. If the hull is otherwise sound and the gaps between the planks too large to be closed by swelling the surveyor should know this. If this is the case then spline while the hull is still dry. If done correctly the hull will hardly leak when first launched and be completely water-tight within a couple of days.

For caulking to be successful the inner edge of the planking should touch. The bevels on the planks give room for the caulking. If the inner edges of the planks have a significant gap then, when the boat is launched, the water pressure will force the caulking right through into the hull and all that work will be wasted and the hull will continue to leak.

 

[Richard D]

Plining planking

Could someone explain the proceedure for splining, is it a specilaist job or could a competant owner do it. On a 34 Foot boat what time is it likely to take assuming no abnormal problems.

Richard

 

[theoldsalt]

Richard D,

Yes it can be done by a competent DIYer. Unfortunately the information on how it is done is probably too lengthy for this forum.

A little information here

http://www.jwsmarineservices.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=105&Itemid=111

But perhaps talk to experts for advise at a nearby repairer yard that specialises in wooded hulls.

Good luck

 

[theoldsalt]

Richard D.

There are lots of books available on the maintenance of wooden boats.

Try a Google search.

Regard

 

[Tranona]

Could someone explain the proceedure for splining, is it a specilaist job or could a competant owner do it. On a 34 Foot boat what time is it likely to take assuming no abnormal problems.

Richard

Splining is not necessarily a sensible thing to do in all cases. Many carvel boats are built in a flexible manner - that is they allow for expansion and contraction of the various timbers, often at different rates. That is why traditional caulking is usually the best way of keeping the seams watertight.

Splining is most commonly used where the framing is very stable, the fastenings secure - and most importantly the timber used for planking is very stable. That is why you find it in high class construction where timber such as teak and the better mahogany types are used. Some are so stable that close seams - ie no caulking or splining is used.

The conditions of stabilty and rigidity do not exist in many traditionally built boats, which is why you rarely see splining. If it is done in the wrong circumstances it can lead to failures of structures and fastenings because the timbers cannot expand and contract according to temperature and humidity.

Sometimes when seams have really opened up because the boat is out of the water for a long time, it is possible to remake the caulking seam by routing out the edge of one plank and gluing a spline to that plank edge. A new seam is then cut and re-caulked.

Whatever you need to do, if you have a 34 ft hull with bad seams, you have a massive job on your hands making it good. Even a straight forward raking out and recaulking will keep you busy for a long time. Just do the sums - you will have anywhere between 12 and 15 seams a side times 34 ft approx. You would be doing well to do a seam a day.

 

[Richard D]

Splining

Thanks for all your help.

 

[dunmor]

as usual with this forum a lot of scare stories, usually from people who dont know jack **** !. a wooden boat will allways take up regardless of how much it has dried it just takes longer. a great deal of pleasure can come from owning a wooden boat. yes it needs more work to keep it looking good, it takes longer to varnish or paint a piece of teak than it takes to polish a piece of plastic! but there is a lot of satisfaction in it. there are many times in the year when its too rough to go to sea so why not spend the time doing a bit of maintenance instead of sitting in front of the bloody tv. wooden boats have character plastic boats generally are pretty much like for like. yes i do own a wooden boat, and i spend a lot of time varnishing, but i take a great deal of pride in it, and when i enter a new marina they allways make a beeline for mine, we generally spend the first 30 minutes showing people round the old girl and i love every minute of it.

 

[andygc]

as usual with this forum a lot of scare stories, usually from people who dont know jack **** !. a wooden boat will allways take up regardless of how much it has dried it just takes longer.

I own a wooden boat. Like the one in the OP it is carvel planked. I also chat regularly to the boatwright (PS, why all the discussion about other construction? - he did write carvel). She comes out of the water for about a month for a check of the underwater hull and antifouling and spends the winter in a mud berth. In the past she came out for the winter and took about 24 hours for the leaks to slow to a trickle and about a week to become bone dry. She needed to stay alongside the wall with an automatic mains-powered pump for those 24 hours.

It is not true to say that a wooden boat will always take up. Wood that has dried out and been bleached in the sun is structurally different from wood that has been kept immersed for most of the year, regularly painted and caulked as needed. If it has dried out badly there are perhaps three realistic options, depending on the condition of the structure (if the frames or fastenings are shot, it's a major rebuild job):

1. Put it in a mud berth until it has soaked up all it is going to and then either re-caulk or (if there are still big gaps) glue a spline to one edge only and re-caulk.

2. Don't put it in a mud berth, spline the gaps between the planks and then epoxy coat the whole hull inside and out.

3. Get a chainsaw and make two garden sheds.

Whatever you fancy, get the hull looked at by a competent boatwright and if he says "chainsaw" it's probably best to take his advice - unless you have a great deal of money.

 

[Tranona]

If you go back to the original question the OP says the boat has been out of the water for 7 years so it is quite possible that the seams have opened up and caulking come out.

Other than making general observations about what the problems might be (if any) and the various remedies it is difficult to give any specific advice without a full inspection of the boat.