Time for another Bav. thread; already

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Quandary

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Feb. YM tests the Bav32 against the Contessa 32,
Their conclusion - the Contessa is better, mainly because it can sail.
However the inability to go to windward is probably because of stretchy running rigging, copout?

Stand back, they are on their way!
 
Quandary said:
Feb. YM tests the Bav32 against the Contessa 32,
Their conclusion - the Contessa is better, mainly because it can sail.
However the inability to go to windward is probably because of stretchy running rigging, copout?
Click to expand...

I use only the cheapest of the cheap, cheapo running rigging.

I can report that the Contessa will still go to windward.

Mind you (see my earlier post on "32" footers) I quite like the Bav 32.

Best Boat is a bloody silly idea anyway...
 
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doug748 said:
Best Boat is a bloody silly idea anyway...
Click to expand...

Quite. Best boat for what?

Best boat for Marina hopping & entertaining: Bav

Best boat for when Mr Fish promises there won't be a hurricane: Contessa

Best boat for ditch crawling on a tight budget: Snapdragon

(OK, I made the last one up, but mine does pretty well for me - shallow draft, tough as old boots and very roomy for size)
 
Sorry, Doug, confusion, I was trying to be brief, It was the Bav that could not go upwind, But because it is a Farr design the conclusion was this must have been caused by the rig. Your Contessa scored well for everything except the head. It got 77%, the Sigma 33 must be worth 95% at least.
 
fireball said:
Was it a new Bav 32?
Click to expand...

Yes Farr version Scores
Performance 6, Helm 7 Deck layout 7 Sailplan 8? Design/construction 7
Maintenance 10 Chart Table 4 Galley 7 Heads 10 Living below 9
VP D2(sic) 30 engine with saildrive
Quote
Workmanship has definitely improved but mastic is still a visible feature
 
Odd scores - 10/10 for heads? Obviously expect the owners to be crapping themselves incase the keel falls off so might as well make the heads a nice place to be!! ;)
 
you've obviously never inspected a Bav then - the inlet & outlet valves are in such a position that they'll work if the boat is in a marina or upsidedown ... !
 
Bav, 32 by Farr

The interior looks odd in the photos, finished in light oak with a rather glossy and very even appearance there are no edge mouldings or lippings so it looks very flat, almost Starck, but very roomy for 32'. It almost looks like the melamine foil veneer that is used on Homebase kitchens but I assume it is real oak. It is certainly very different to the marine joinery we have become used to. I think I prefer the plain white finish with hardwood lippings used by J boats.
The standard boat seems very light on deck gear. Turning blocks on the port side only very short tracks and three winches but the deck is then very clean with absolutely nothing to trip over. Apparently the anchor well is too small for an actual anchor but it has a windlass in there.
 
I quite like the looks of that boat..... She is very simular in many ways to my 31... especially that mainsheet coming down to a point on top of the table..... and the double spreader fractional rig... aft facing chart table... large heads.... good avs ..... fine entry... but they have addressed some of the downsides of mine... slightly wider... higher form stability for a bit less heal..... bigger cockpit... Though as pointed out light on deck gear...

Might make a nice quick cruiser with a deep keel and a decent set of sails.....

Certainly one of the most promising boats they have done is a while..
 
The Contessa is 2.667% better than the Bavaria - Offical.

In a 14 page detailed analysis Chris Beeson and his theodolite compared a Contessa 32 fresh from a £60,000 re-manufacturing experience at Jeremy Rogers with a 2010 Bavaria 32 model. The Bav lost by 2 points, getting 75 points out of 100.

The article subheading claims the "scorecard might surprise you". It did indeed, how did the Co32 win!

Sorry Yachting Monthly but I have to pick holes in your scientific method.

Awarding the Co32 10 out of 10 for design and construction is absurd. The fact that JR can run a successful business rebuilding examples after 25+ years of service proves that the design falls well short of 10 out of 10 perfection in the build department. We should not be surprised, the Co32 has just 2.4 tons of material ignoring the keel whereas the Bav 32 has 3.9 tons.

And where is the assessment of tankage in the 100 point check list? The Co32 carries a paltry 83 litres of water, which is a serious handicap for a yacht designed to merrily roll through 360 degree capsizes mid ocean. The Bav 32 has double the water and fuel capacity but zero yachting monthly brownie points for this advantage.

Then the editorial trips over its own paragraphs, first we read about the deep and secure cockpit of the Co32 but then we are told the tiller clutching helm will have to eject surplus crew members during a tack. hmmm, the photos in the article confirm crew members on a Co32 seem happier perched outside of the cockpit.

Let's consider the sail plan scoring. The Bav wins by just one point here despite the titchy IOR rule cheating main sail of the Co32, the bane of so many 1970's designs.

The Bav looses by one point in the galley assessment. I can only assume the YM editors decided to overlook the fact that the Co32 galley was designed to be operated by a dwarf.

Finally the Bav 32 looses a whopping 5 points for its vestigial chart table. Dear Yachting Monthly editors have you not heard, chart tables are oh so 2002. I cannot remember the last time I spoke to a yachtsman who claimed to still leave pencil marks on a paper chart. The Bav 32 does have a functional laptop support plinth plus seat.

I could go on, but what is the point? Yachting Monthly has to appease its indigenous UK readership.
 
If you wanted a new boat about 32 feet and weren't planning to race or go RTW or do round the horn type sailing, surely (unless you had pots of money) you'd be a bit mad to not consider a Bav 32?
 
On the basis that these are cruisers, and that Gentlemen don't beat, then why is it such a big thing that the Co32 can climb to windward? As soon as the sheets are cracked off, the Bav will whistle past again.
The speed under engine is a fine thing to be comparing.
 
As a bit of historic commentary it is quite interesting and a slightly different take than the somewhat similar series going on in PBO.

However, the only real point of similarity is the overalll length of the two boats. Just about everything else is different. The Bavaria is 5 feet longer on the waterline and 2 foot wider - so is more directly comparable to an older style 38 footer (in fact its key dimensions except LOA and ballast are almost identical to my earlier Bavaria 37). The telling distinction for me, however, is that the Contessa displaces 4200kg and the Bavaria 5200kg. Only 52% of the former is devoted to "boat", the rest being lead, whereas 75% of the Bavaria is "boat". A new Contessa is £145k and a new Bavaria is £75k.

This just about sums up the change in both consumer expectations and the response of designers and builders (or is it the other way round?) over the last 40 years.

I have a problem with using "scores" to arrive at a conclusion. They assume that common criteria are being used, whereas the two boats had very different design briefs. The inadequacy of this method is clearly illustrated by the two areas that get low scores where expectations have changed so much over the years.

I was somewhat surprised by the positive reaction (in general) to the interior in the Bavaria, but they are only following the lead from Hanse, Beneteau and Jeanneau. These in turn reflect modern styles from the housing market and demonstrate what can be done using man made materials and mass production techniques. It will be interesting to see how well this is accepted and how durable the finishes are.
 
Do IPC get a percentage of all new & secondhand Contessa sales? Seriously, every other page has some reference to them - "Not as good as a Contessa"; "Won't look after you like a Contessa will" etc etc. It's almost as if YM have decided that it's a benchmark for yacht design. In reality it is a very wet, very cramped yacht that will keep you safe in a gale, but unfortunately it will keep anything but a childless couple uncomfortable for a lot of the rest of the time. I sailed a 26 a few times on the IOM years ago and I'm really glad that yacht design has moved on. You could build a Ford Cortina now and it would be better built than a 1970's Cortina but it would still not be a patch on a Mondeo. I mean for goodness sake on a Co32 the heads is in the flippin forecabin?
 
Tranona said:
I was somewhat surprised by the positive reaction (in general) to the interior in the Bavaria, but they are only following the lead from Hanse, Beneteau and Jeanneau. These in turn reflect modern styles
Click to expand...
I would love to be a fly on the wall in a Bav/Ben/Jen design office when these style decisions are made. My hunch is that hardwood supply economics are dictating the change more than shoreside interior decor fashion.

Do you know that since the Contessa 32 made it boat show debut, the world population has nearly doubled. So that equates to another 3.2 billion soles clamouring for a bit of teak trim to cap off their life style.

Even since my late 2004 Bavaria popped off the production line, teak trim has made a notable retreat from yacht interior finishings. I personally doubt the longevity of internal yacht carpentry that lacks a teak cap rail but I don't mind the 1950's Alden, Dickerson, Hinckly white paint and teak edging look.
 
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