Time for another Bav. thread; already

jonjo4 said:
I think they fullfill the same ownership requirements as does a Morgan 4+4 ashore i.e. their owners like the concept of going for the occasional summer afternoon sail and the admiring looks they get but they don't have to time or inclination to stay aboard for more than 12 hours.

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Blimey, you've not met many of us then. We lived on ours for 8 months when we went to Spain and the Azores a few years back.
 
Twister_Ken said:
, can't help feeling that anyone buying one must need help finding their own **** .:rolleyes:
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Hmmm.

If t'internet is to believed, just over 200 Twisters were produced in 20 years!

Is it just possible that it's the few people who bought THEM that need the help you suggest? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Note DOUBLE roll-eyes.

Or is less more?

But let's not argue.

This post was started by someone who is on record as saying '' I did admit to hating them (Bavarias) but only on the basis of their popularity''

Perhaps that's what he's looking for?
 
Sharp edges on the Bav 32

I am surprised that no one has commented on the sharp edges on the "chart table", the saloon table and the galley. Would not like to be below in a rough sea. You could do yourself some nasty damage !!
 
galadriel said:
Having now had a chance to read the articles, although the difference in the scores was only 2, I feel the the scoring for the Contessa IMO was over generous in some areas to archive this 'win'.

The Contessa has always been the benchmark for a safe seaworthy boat. Although it has a BR of 48% it only manages a Stix of 33, 1 point above the minimum of 32 and only .7 above that of the Bav (the low stix for the Bav was pointed out but failed to be highlighted for the Contessa). A bit of research will see that the Etap 32S has a Stix of 36, I'm sure there are many other 32 ft boats with similar ratings.

In the past the Contessa may well have been the safest most seaworthy boat afloat, but that was in the past, together with RDF, Decca, cappok lifejackets and Stuart Turner engines, technology moves on.

When it comes to looks though, the row away test, then it has to be the Contessa every time.
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I agree with you on the RDF, engines etc but the fact is storms haven't changed with time and in 79 the Contessa behaved exceptionally well .Some things stay the same which isn't to say that modern boats can't be as seaworthy as the Contessa.Problem is most are not.
 
Some things stay the same which isn't to say that modern boats can't be as seaworthy as the Contessa.Problem is most are not.
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Well - that comes back down to intended use doesn't it ... the majority of Bav owners will be day sailing with the occaisional long(er) passage - if it's blowing old boots and/or the seastate is horrible and they're going the wrong way then they probably won't bother going out.... why that would make the Contessa a "better boat" I don't know ...
It's all about choosing the right boat for your requirements ... a Bav fits ours, a Contessa would see me singlehanding ...
 
fireball said:
Well - that comes back down to intended use doesn't it ... the majority of Bav owners will be day sailing with the occaisional long(er) passage - if it's blowing old boots and/or the seastate is horrible and they're going the wrong way then they probably won't bother going out.... why that would make the Contessa a "better boat" I don't know ...
It's all about choosing the right boat for your requirements ... a Bav fits ours, a Contessa would see me singlehanding ...
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...and a Contessa (pretty as she is) may well have been the best option in 1979! But today there are plenty of boats far more sea worthy, if the Stix ratings are anything to go by.
 
Quandary said:
Feb. YM tests the Bav32 against the Contessa 32,
Their conclusion - the Contessa is better, mainly because it can sail.
However the inability to go to windward is probably because of stretchy running rigging, copout?

Stand back, they are on their way!
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The argument about Bav has never really centered on sailing performance - thats a design issue as much as anything and Bav use competent modern designers.

The argument always was about build quality and I can see no way in which an old banger like a Contessa could ever be of the same build standard as a modern factory built boat. In porduction management, quality comes from volume and technology not hand work.
 
Twister_Ken said:
" no way in which an old banger like a Contessa could ever be of the same build standard as a modern factory built boat."

There speaks a man who hasn't had the pleasure of taking a good look at Gigi.
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which to be fair has been hand crafted and restored by its original manufacturer in a way that no one with any sanity could possibly afford at commercial labour rates.

Shame on you Ken. Apples with Apples please.
 
pasta_simon said:
Do IPC get a percentage of all new & secondhand Contessa sales? Seriously, every other page has some reference to them - "Not as good as a Contessa"; "Won't look after you like a Contessa will" etc etc. It's almost as if YM have decided that it's a benchmark for yacht design. In reality it is a very wet, very cramped yacht that will keep you safe in a gale, but unfortunately it will keep anything but a childless couple uncomfortable for a lot of the rest of the time. I sailed a 26 a few times on the IOM years ago and I'm really glad that yacht design has moved on. You could build a Ford Cortina now and it would be better built than a 1970's Cortina but it would still not be a patch on a Mondeo. I mean for goodness sake on a Co32 the heads is in the flippin forecabin?
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Absolutely, and to the point. The "!study" throws more light on YM's greying editorial team than the boats in question - it's a study in thoughtless low tec nostalgia, quibbling over trivia etc. Just look again at the vocabulary used, it says it all. You almost feel sorry for those who got themselves a YM sub for Christmas!

I've just bought a German sailing mag - Palstek - 200 pages loaded with teccy comment and appraisals, compared with YM's high % of boring repetitive advertising content. German text only maybe, but it shows what can be produced. YM's staff know what's required, they read these posts, but they are clearly too depressed to do anything about it!

PWG
 
I do think it a strange comparision: a brand new, just unwrapped Bav with empty tanks against a Contessa with Jeremy Rogers (serial winner of the C32 Nat Champs) onboard and a 99k refit to justify to the new owner. :rolleyes:

The new Bav interior doesn't seem right to me, I haven't stepped aboard one but it seems very open with lots of square corners to catch your hips when being thrown about at sea.

In terms of the test, I have no doubt that the Contessa sails better in a wider range of weather and sea conditions but how on earth can anyone say the Contessa was the best boat?

My wife isn't keen on the current Ikea interior of the Bav but there is absolutely no way that she would even step foot on any boat where she runs the risk of waking up at 3.00am to see me sat at the foot of her bunk gritting my teeth and having a dump after a night of curry and guinness! :D

The Bav dealer must be kicking themselves that they didn't put any effort into ensuring the 32 was better prepared.
 
P4Paul said:
The Bav dealer must be kicking themselves that they didn't put any effort into ensuring the 32 was better prepared.
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That's been my opinion of all the AWBs at SIBS ... it seems as though they present a boat straight off the press - with no snagging done...
 
P4Paul said:
I do think it a strange comparision.
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And it is not the first time it has been tried either. My 1996 copy of Yachts and Equipment (remember that?) has a Contessa pitted against a Beneteau Oceanis 321. The race prepared Contessa sailed over the horizon pretty quickly.
I guess you can't blame the poor old journos though, difficult to introduce any light and shade into a comparison of two white boats.
 
P4Paul said:
I do think it a strange comparision: a brand new, just unwrapped Bav with empty tanks against a Contessa with Jeremy Rogers (serial winner of the C32 Nat Champs) onboard and a 99k refit to justify to the new owner. :rolleyes:
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..and even then, on points anyway, the Contessa only beat the Bav by 2!

How would the Bav sail with Dyneema halyards, decent sails (production boats should not be supplied with sails if the best the manufactures can do is tea towels) and a cruising inventory aboard.

On the comments about the interior of the Bav, looks a bit like the inside of a fridge I thought.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
The argument about Bav has never really centered on sailing performance - thats a design issue as much as anything and Bav use competent modern designers.

The argument always was about build quality and I can see no way in which an old banger like a Contessa could ever be of the same build standard as a modern factory built boat. In porduction management, quality comes from volume and technology not hand work.
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Perhaps for you, but sailing performance is what interests me, otherwise I would have a nice old converted trawler with a big Gardner engine. (that day is coming) Sailing performance is influenced by the manufacturer more than the designer who works to a brief and not all Farr boats are fast. I take the view that if it really interested Bavaria they would not market this boat with the quality of gear they have done. However the budget must control it and more and bigger winches, a lead keel, MDS masts, TD Furlex, travellers, controllable cars, turning blocks, etc would all add a big chunk to the budget and probably increase their potential market by less than 10%. However, for myself, I have always been a sucker for quality and would be inclined to discount a product where the maker did not display an urge to target it. When you look at the spec. I don't think this boat(new Bav 32) is really that cheap unless, as you suggest, it is priced by the cubic foot.
However YM set this trap for us, the only reason to directly compare such boats could be to court controversy and gain attention, a more realistic comparison of development over time would have been with a cruiser from the Contessa era, perhaps an early Moody, but that test might not have been easily manipulated to give the headline result.
One of the best things I watched last year was a Contessa 32 beating right down Loch Ness in a F5, just so elegant as she tacked from side to side with the water just running along the toe rail, I still have the photo on my desktop, they are such a pretty boat on the water. (However when I congratulated the crew at the lock afterwards, they explained that the long beat was because on their boat it was faster than motoring).
 
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