Tiller Vs Wheel?

[GHA]

We sat in Horta once in the marina and watched a succession of Raymarine linear drive units going past on their way to MAYS for repair

I've been in the back room at MAYS. floor to ceiling with broken autopilots. Not limited to any make or design. They all break.
Still have the trusty aries onboard which will continue to do the lions share of steering but added just a tiller ram on deck with opencpn/pipilot doing the control. Same ram as pelagic autopilots. Yet to be trialed but gets very good press for both ram and control.

 

[fredrussell]

Hard over? I never get that far even tacking, in my ‘sporty’ end boat.

Sorry, should have said, ‘hard-over time’ being the time TP takes to get from centre position to the limit of its travel in either direction. It’s just a measure of the device’s operation speed.

 

[srm]

While in Stromness marina I met a visitor who had set out from the south coast of England to sail none-stop single handed around the UK. He started with two new Raymarine tillerpilots that were, according to the manufacturers specs, suited for his size and weight of boat. Stromness was his third stop due to tillerpilot failures.

He eventually got someone at Raymarine to admit that they were not designed for continuous use.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

While in Stromness marina I met a visitor who had set out from the south coast of England to sail none-stop single handed around the UK. He started with two new Raymarine tillerpilots that were, according to the manufacturers specs, suited for his size and weight of boat. Stromness was his third stop due to tillerpilot failures.

He eventually got someone at Raymarine to admit that they were not designed for continuous use.

I used a TP22 for 18 days continuously. It started to growl a bit after 16 days. After the trip it was replaced under guarantee! That was UK to Med direct with F7 across Biscay and F8 through the straits of Gib. I had a Raymarine 1000 as a backup but it was utterly useless unless motoring in calm conditions.
I use a TP32 now with the 22 as backup. It's worked in all conditions including a couple of hours of beating into 40+kts. But my boat almost sails herself to windward even in those conditions if reefed properly. The 32 has not problems steering downwind in a blow as long as I'm careful with the sail plan.

 

[srm]

The 32 has not problems steering downwind in a blow as long as I'm careful with the sail plan.

I suspect that is the secret, balancing the sail plan to keep the helm reasonably balanced so the TP or on my boats the windvane gear does not have to work too hard.
Having a directionaly stable hull also helps.

 

[geem]

I suspect that is the secret, balancing the sail plan to keep the helm reasonably balanced so the TP or on my boats the windvane gear does not have to work too hard.
Having a directionaly stable hull also helps.

Our windpilot has 1:2 pulley blocks in the lines. I needed to do this as our geared steering is 3.5 turns lock to lock. It always amazes me how powerful the Windpilot is. When quartering seas want to push the stern around the Windpilot throws a huge amount of lock and just corrects. It's great to watch.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I’d love to try a wind steering system. It might not be brilliant downwind as the changes in apparent wind can be large, but against that, it’s very steady upwind. Downwind, you need to feel the speed changes and pre empt the apparent wind. No autopilot is going to do that.

 

[srm]

When quartering seas want to push the stern around the Windpilot throws a huge amount of lock and just corrects. It's great to watch.

Likewise my Monitor. The Monitor manual does make the point that the sail plan needs to be balanced as well, especially on a reach.
On a run the Monitor has steered the boat for most of a night with a fresh wind dead astern and a swell on the beam. Headsail was goose winged without a pole and collapsed behind the main perhaps once or twice an hour only to fill again as a swell rolled it across.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I’d love to try a wind steering system. It might not be brilliant downwind as the changes in apparent wind can be large, but against that, it’s very steady upwind. Downwind, you need to feel the speed changes and pre empt the apparent wind. No autopilot is going to do that.

pretty much every serious racing autopilot uses true wind down wind. From mini 650s to open 60s.

 

[srm]

I’d love to try a wind steering system. It might not be brilliant downwind as the changes in apparent wind can be large, but against that, it’s very steady upwind. Downwind, you need to feel the speed changes and pre empt the apparent wind. No autopilot is going to do that.

Actually its on a reach where the changes in apparent wind are largest and a wind vane steering system has the most problems. Generally they are not suited for fast multihulls (or monohulls) for that reason, though I did use my Monitor gear on a Prout catamaran (which makes no claims for performance) and accepted a drunken course on a reach.

 

[RupertW]

From my experience of multihulsl you are likely to have far more directional stability than a sporty light monohull. You don't get knocked of course so easily be quartering seas. A lot easier life for the autopilot.

Wow that’s the opposite of my experience - going downwind long distance in a cat with quartering swell it was wheel flying over one way then multiple turns the other and back again endlessly- but there was never a pressure to broach.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Actually its on a reach where the changes in apparent wind are largest and a wind vane steering system has the most problems. Generally they are not suited for fast multihulls (or monohulls) for that reason, though I did use my Monitor gear on a Prout catamaran (which makes no claims for performance) and accepted a drunken course on a reach.

We never run. Downwind is a series of broad reaches.

 

[GHA]

No autopilot is going to do that.

Pypilot can. Can use true wind to steer to just for that.
pypilot - open source marine autopilot

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Pypilot can. Can use true wind to steer to just for that.
pypilot - open source marine autopilot

Forgive my scepticism. You start to luff when you feel the pressure lessen on the back of your neck. As the wind moves forward, with s pressure increase, you bear off and try to carry the speed. It’s a dark art.

 

[GHA]

Forgive my scepticism. You start to luff when you feel the pressure lessen on the back of your neck. As the wind moves forward, with s pressure increase, you bear off and try to carry the speed. It’s a dark art.

not tried it in anger but PyPilot has a dedicated following, the true wind was added for downwind & all reports back are that it works fine. But that's the real world..... ?

 

[geem]

Wow that’s the opposite of my experience - going downwind long distance in a cat with quartering swell it was wheel flying over one way then multiple turns the other and back again endlessly- but there was never a pressure to broach.

What Cat? I did a lot of miles many years ago in a Prout Snowgoose 37. She would run straight whilst surfing under autopilot at up to 18kts. We got in probably the largest following seas I have ever been in on the Costa del Morte. Never needed to touch the autopilot. I think long shinny keels are now back in vogue compared to the super wide Lagooneske keels seen in recent years.

 

[geem]

Actually its on a reach where the changes in apparent wind are largest and a wind vane steering system has the most problems. Generally they are not suited for fast multihulls (or monohulls) for that reason, though I did use my Monitor gear on a Prout catamaran (which makes no claims for performance) and accepted a drunken course on a reach.

A good friend of mine has lots of experience with racing boats and wind self steering systems. He says that the Hydrovane works surprisingly well on fast boats that like to surf down wind. It's because they are so slow to react they don't make a course change before the boat has stopped surfing. He recommended the Windpilot on heavy displacement boats. We haven't been disappointed with his recommendation

 

[RupertW]

What Cat? I did a lot of miles many years ago in a Prout Snowgoose 37. She would run straight whilst surfing under autopilot at up to 18kts. We got in probably the largest following seas I have ever been in on the Costa del Morte. Never needed to touch the autopilot. I think long shinny keels are now back in vogue compared to the super wide Lagooneske keels seen in recent years.

Lagoon 410 - 2002 build

 

[Chiara’s slave]

At least you don’t have to concern yourself with tacking downwind

 

[mattonthesea]

We have a tiller; moored up it's a towel rail, a yarn holder, or out of the way.
Off mooring it's used for steering out, feeling balance of sails and steering in.
Example: solo Las Palmas to Grenada, 2800NM, steered out, tiller pilot on, sails up, check balance, Aries on. During journey: two touches of the tiller. Arrival with tiller pilot until last manoeuvres with tiller for anchoring.
Fab?
No need for any of those fancy things like chart plotters etc. But that suits me. My partner gets anxious when I don't turn the plotter on (I have one now). She was introduced to sailing with a wheel (a natural); took her a while to get used to a tiller!

I think I'm saying bear your preference in mind but keep it low-ish priority. ?