Thread: Chain Counter - a Winter Project - Poll

[Hurricane]

A few of us on this forum are considering developing an Open Source project to build a chain counter.
Open Source means that there would be no cost to the end user for the intellectual design on the project.
The concept is that software would be available to download and install into a purpose made electronic circuit board.
The circuit board could be built by anyone with rudimentary soldering abilities for a very low price.
Initially, it is thought that the cost of the components could be around £20.

The project would be distributed under the GNU (General Public License) which is used for software.
At the moment, it is not clear if GNU covers hardware but the Open Source Arduino system is likely to form the basis of the design.
Research would therefore be needed.

Before taking it any further, it would be useful to see what people on this forum would think of such a project.

So, this questionnaire has been set up to initially establish the enthusiasm for such a project.

 

[wipe_out]

Sounds like a fun idea and could open the door for other similar projects..

Only concern would be that "rudimentary soldering abilities" to someone into electronics would be something completely different to someone who has never owned a soldering iron.. If it was possible to find/buy and already assembled board to base the software on it would make things much simpler for anyone to use.. Just my initial thought though..

 

[vas]

wipe-out,

I think soldering abilities will be quite low, you'll probably wont dare tackling it if you indeed never tried soldering before, but most others should manage it. I agree that the preassembled on more expensive stack of boards would be useful and definitely possible, but could pump cost up to 40+gbp.

As far as opening the door for other projects, keep in mind that more inputs could be easily implemented, and will little effort displayed as well in whatever method is used (smartphone/tablet, webserver, NMEA0183, etc). Some ideas on this front (without discussing effort and costs involved) could be:

• various battery banks level monitor (interesting if remotely available - say from home, I see mlines of this forum has done it already)
• (instant) fuel consumption (tricky to get cheap sensors but I think doable for 50gbp per diesel motor not at the 2k pricerange accuracy though!)
• temp/other cheap sensors monitoring
• tank level monitoring from typical sensors

so yep I'm in

cheers

V.

 

[laika]

So, this questionnaire has been set up to initially establish the enthusiasm for such a project.

Would it perhaps generate more interest on the PBO forum (at least cross-posted)? Chain counter equally of interest to raggies and PBO is theoretically propulsion-neutral aimed at all DIY-oriented boaters.

 

[Hurricane]

?ugger

I thought I "bailed out" of posting this thread when I realised that the Poll didn't do what I wanted it to.

I wanted it to do a questionnaire rather than a poll.

Anyway, this was what was going to be in the questionnaire:-

Question 1
Do you think that this project is interesting?

Question 2
Do you think that this project will be useful to this community/forums

Question 3
Would you, yourself, build/install such a device?

Question 4
Would you like to join a community of developers to help with the development of this project? (lots of different skills required - not just technical).

Quite happy to take the negative views as well as the positive ones.

 

[KevB]

Making the chain counter itself may be inexpensive but the infrastructure behind it isn't something that comes "standard" on a boat. Maybe you could give us an insight to the additional cost of making work, that may be helpful for those thinking of "giving it a go"

 

[Hurricane]

Would it perhaps generate more interest on the PBO forum (at least cross-posted)? Chain counter equally of interest to raggies and PBO is theoretically propulsion-neutral aimed at all DIY-oriented boaters.

Agreed - lets see how many on here are interested though.

 

[davids0865]

Yes, Yes, Yes, no point unless you plan on making it in Oak

 

[rogerthebodger]

Agreed - lets see how many on here are interested though.

I am always interested in these kinds of projects having got hold of a couple of YAPP's from Angus in the past.

As far as chain counter concerned I already have a Auto Anchor counter on my boat so may pass on this one but there are lots more micro controller basted ideas I have. from Ultrasonic fuel/water tank capacity to fuel flow meters for small HP diesel engines using venture flow measurement to accurate LPG gas bottle level measurement.

I'm a bit out of date latest micros as last time I was involved was 20 odd years ago using 8051/31

I also think PBO reader to reader may be the better forum to post projects like this on.

 

[Whitelighter]

Yes
Yes
Yes
Not sure I have any skills which could add to the project. Soldering I can do but I am a Luddite when it comes to programming

 

[vas]

bumping this thread up a bit

Making the chain counter itself may be inexpensive but the infrastructure behind it isn't something that comes "standard" on a boat. Maybe you could give us an insight to the additional cost of making work, that may be helpful for those thinking of "giving it a go"

Depending on windlass, some are prewired, some others need a hole in the gypsy and some epoxy to glue the magnet and a way to secure the sensor to the body (or deck or something).
Of course you need to route the two wires from the windlass to the area where the blackbox with the board and bits lives.
Sensor and magnet is between 20-30euro (which I do find excessive!)

Yes, Yes, Yes, no point unless you plan on making it in Oak

you could built oak boxes to get all the pcb chips et all in. Obviously wont be black boxes anymore, but would be much better

I am always interested in these kinds of projects having got hold of a couple of YAPP's from Angus in the past.

As far as chain counter concerned I already have a Auto Anchor counter on my boat so may pass on this one but there are lots more micro controller basted ideas I have. from Ultrasonic fuel/water tank capacity to fuel flow meters for small HP diesel engines using venture flow measurement to accurate LPG gas bottle level measurement.

I also think PBO reader to reader may be the better forum to post projects like this on.

I bought (for around 20euro) a pressure sensor that when calibrated could tell me how much diesel is in my tank. Wont be at all accurate when the boat hits 3-4ft waves, but should be ok when idle. Also doesn't need a hole at the top to fit the ultrasonic sensor

Yes
Yes
Yes
Not sure I have any skills which could add to the project. Soldering I can do but I am a Luddite when it comes to programming

Not anyone has to program...

---


BTW, was looking at some kit on ebay, for an extra 6quid you can get a 2.8 touchscreen that snaps on an arduino. Could end up as a viable solution for interfacing and controlling the whole thing

cheers

V.

 

[Trundlebug]

I would be interested, I'm always keen to have more gadgets on the boat.

The main problem I foresee has already been mentioned above, namely getting the wires from the bow to the wheelhouse. To be reliable I should think it would have to be hard wired as a wireless system would probably add more cost and may not have the range, reliability or robustness (intereference?)

I'm certainly interested though.
I've done enough soldering on all sorts of Maplins kits & similar which are now installed on the boat: intermittent wipe delay timer, fog horn interval timer, etc.

The holy grail in self build kits would definitely be for measuring fuel consumption though.

 

[Hurricane]

I would be interested, I'm always keen to have more gadgets on the boat.

The main problem I foresee has already been mentioned above, namely getting the wires from the bow to the wheelhouse. To be reliable I should think it would have to be hard wired as a wireless system would probably add more cost and may not have the range, reliability or robustness (intereference?)

I'm certainly interested though.
I've done enough soldering on all sorts of Maplins kits & similar which are now installed on the boat: intermittent wipe delay timer, fog horn interval timer, etc.

The holy grail in self build kits would definitely be for measuring fuel consumption though.

Actually, my thoughts were to have a wireless connection between the chain locker and a smart phone.
Maybe power could be picked up off the windlass itself.

 

[Trundlebug]

Actually, my thoughts were to have a wireless connection between the chain locker and a smart phone.
Maybe power could be picked up off the windlass itself.

Yep that's what I figured, power is already at the windlass so no problem to tap off that.
I would personally prefer an in-boat readout display rather than a phone, but I fully appreciate others may be different.

 

[Hurricane]

Yep that's what I figured, power is already at the windlass so no problem to tap off that.
I would personally prefer an in-boat readout display rather than a phone, but I fully appreciate others may be different.

Well, having written apps for both the Android and iPhone platforms, it might actually be easier to have a transmit device and a separate receive device than to go through the pain if smart phone app development.
Probably shouldn't rule out that option then.

 

[vas]

Mike,
I'll try and make a longer more coherent post at some point over the w/e, but it looks we may have two and a half options emerging:

1. custom light board by the windlass, B/T interface to mobile phone/tablet viewing chain status and eventually controlling windlass.
2. full wiring to helm, custom board, relays controlling. All through a touchscreen display
3. full wiring to somewhere by a device accepting NMEA0183. Board feeding the said device with autoanchor custom NMEA sentences which are then shown on GMI10/20 over the bus.

You want 1, I ideally want 3, but could settle for 2 which I think is more catchy and implement 3 on top of 2 at my leisure.

If such a thing goes off the ground, we could seek decent sensors for tanks and even attempt a fuel consumption meter. Problem with them is that will probably need to go to NMEA2K or someother rather closed standard which is not nice...

cheers

V.

 

[Hurricane]

Mike,
I'll try and make a longer more coherent post at some point over the w/e, but it looks we may have two and a half options emerging:

1. custom light board by the windlass, B/T interface to mobile phone/tablet viewing chain status and eventually controlling windlass.
2. full wiring to helm, custom board, relays controlling. All through a touchscreen display
3. full wiring to somewhere by a device accepting NMEA0183. Board feeding the said device with autoanchor custom NMEA sentences which are then shown on GMI10/20 over the bus.

You want 1, I ideally want 3, but could settle for 2 which I think is more catchy and implement 3 on top of 2 at my leisure.

If such a thing goes off the ground, we could seek decent sensors for tanks and even attempt a fuel consumption meter. Problem with them is that will probably need to go to NMEA2K or someother rather closed standard which is not nice...

cheers

V.

When you put your thoughts together, you should consider a device that isn't available on the market.
There is little point in producing a wired remote control/counter for a windlass if the manufacturer already offers such a device.
IMO, the criteria is:-
Something that doesn't already exist.
Cheap to make
Reliable
Easy to build
Easy and convenient to install

 

[vas]

When you put your thoughts together, you should consider a device that isn't available on the market.
There is little point in producing a wired remote control/counter for a windlass if the manufacturer already offers such a device.
IMO, the criteria is:-
Something that doesn't already exist.
Cheap to make
Reliable
Easy to build
Easy and convenient to install

true,

but a chain counter costs upwards of 200usd and up to a grand. If you can do it with 50usd you have a point, no?
Personally I'm not so keen on all the round besel devices, a flush mounted 3inch touch screen would be much cooler!
Yes, I understand convenience of installation is an issue on both the 200 and 50 option.

I think going modular is the key. Having a boatpc as in your case sorts out a series of issues that some one else wont be able to tackle easily.

still waiting for all the bits I bought off ebay, once they're here I hope I'll also have some more time to work on this.

cheers

V.

 

[Hurricane]

true,

but a chain counter costs upwards of 200usd and up to a grand. If you can do it with 50usd you have a point, no?
Personally I'm not so keen on all the round besel devices, a flush mounted 3inch touch screen would be much cooler!
Yes, I understand convenience of installation is an issue on both the 200 and 50 option.

I think going modular is the key. Having a boatpc as in your case sorts out a series of issues that some one else wont be able to tackle easily.

still waiting for all the bits I bought off ebay, once they're here I hope I'll also have some more time to work on this.

cheers

V.

I think you may have misunderstood me.
The project I'm doing is for myself and my particular installation.

The project that I'm suggesting would be different which should be useful for others and I fully accept that there wouldn't be a PC in the system.
I was really outlining an Open Source project that would be suitable for as many people as possible to build something themselves for very little money.
To that end, I'm prepared to help in its development.

 

[asteven221]

Yes to all the questions.

It's been a while since a fabricated any Veroboard projects, but I would definitely take a shot at a chain counter. We don't anchor a lot, but nearly every time, I have to confess that usually either forget my latest "obvious" marking system altogether, or keep thinking I have missed a tie wrap as the chain rapidly goes overboard. Invariably the whole lot ends up going into the sea.

I have often pondered over the idea of a centralised screen on the boat, then using something like a Raspberry Pi sort of PC and then add loads of sensors to monitor the boats systems. Unfortunately, I revert to type and do sod all about it, but this looks an excellent idea.