This is going to REALLY open up a BIG can of worms

[nickfabbri]

I had a Jag 25 as my first boat. Absolutely loved it. There is a PBO article on it somewhere in the archives. For a 25 footer she had a lot to offer. Good accommodation, a good sized cockpit and it wasnt a totally ugly beast.

However there were some downsides to her; notably her p**s poor windward performance. She had a tacking angle of about 190 degrees!!
The engine was an old volvo md5. Very easy to service and fix, but very very noisy. Also apparently there is a problem with the exhaust elbow rusting and there being no way to replace it.
I would be surprised if you could pick one up for 6k though. I sold mine for almost 9 three years ago.

 

[zambant]

food for thought

Thanks to all for your suggestions.
I'm certainly looking in great details at all your suggestions.
As to the ? of less than single handed - you try sailing with a noisy nosey 7 year old who's main aim in life is to try and distract with

" quick daddy look...." or a voice from below " oh no....."

 

[Gelmaster]

LMAO
Memories you cant replace
Sounds great mate!!

 

[jow]

same route

Hi,

my first boat was a Jaguar 22 as well which I changed back in 2006 for something bigger (Bilge Keeler).
I, too, had a look at Jaguar 25 and at Westerlys, as we do have loads of them in our club here in Dublin.
I went for a Sadler 26, but this is out of your budget, no chance to get one for 6000.

Let me give you my two cents (and people will hate me for that, I am sure ):
If you like to sail and enjoy sailing (and a Jaguar 22 sails quite nice for her size) then I would strongly suggest you forget about Westerly Centaurs or Pageants.
They sail like horses. A centaur is not even nice to sail at all because the cockpit is very low, the tiller is extremly long and wrongly placed, mainsheet with track behind the helmsman and sitting on the side coamings is not an option. So most of the time you might stand up in the cockpit to sail.
The boat doesn't beat well and is generally of an old design. Outdated by all means. And the most often heared thing from an owner is: "But she is a very safe boat, in stormy conditions above 6Bf she sails very well". Might be, but how often are you sailing in these conditions? More often you will get annoyed but the other downsides...
I hate this boat, and I sailed with four different owners now, two of those had new sails etc and the boat condition was good.
On a different note: we do have two Jaguars 25 in the club and they sail quite well (Westerlys have no chance in a race). They are well priced, spacious enough and I like them because the 'sail-and-feel' is ok. They are safe boats too, but they sail in a force 2 as well
Oh, and forget about a Leisure 23sl as well, not much bigger than a Jag22 and as well outdated as an westerly...

The other thing: because of the recession you might be able to pick a Sadler 25 for your budget. They sail even a bit better than the Jaguar...

Regards,
jow

 

[aquaplane]

My first boat was a Jag 25 lift keel and I was really pleased with it.
It sailed quite well but it was a bit tender and we had a few moments in her which scared my new crew, but that's Windermere sailing with variable winds and viloent gusts at times. They may be better on the sea with steadier more predictable winds.
I didn't have a spray hood and the sloping main bulkhead was a pain, it rained in if you leave the washboards out. The only place there is standing headroom is at the hatch, good for looking out when it's fine but poor for cooking in the rain, unless you have a spray hood.
Many seem to have an outboard, personally I think that a 25' boat should have room for an inboard, certainly an outboard should be in a well not hung on the back.

I prefer the standing head room in my current Centaur. It doesn't sail quite as well as the Jag 25 but it's more comfortable to live on. I have to go up a couple of steps to look out of the companionway, but I can stand up in all the saloon. The Centaur is a heavier boat and it feels more solid, the sort of thing that is reassuring to a young crew possibly. The Paegent has a different forecabin, one of the berths is a bit shorter (the boat is 3' shorter you have to loose something somewhere) but you still have the standing headroom.

I looked at Dufour 1800s too, they are similar to the Jag 25 in many respects, lighter, lower, more performance related than the Westerlys.

 

[Seajet]

Each to their own, but I have been surprised by some of the replies here !

Snapdragons & Colvic 26's sail well ? Which planet is that on then ?!

I would have thought your priority is indeed the boat & design, equipment can be added or changed later as money & time allow.

The Centaur has a horribly neutral feeling to the helm, but sails surprisingly well if properly handled, but all will be well out of your budget ( if within it, why ?! ).

The Tomahawk 25 & Jaguar 25, while not exactly boats I'd crawl over a mile of broken glass for, seem the best bets mentioned for the criteria.

I understand your needs, but do beware even this step in size will mean a few significant changes; no longer simple to get the mast up & down, probably an old inboard ( now that is a really good way to spend serious money ), and as you're used to a lift keel beware all twin keelers should be checked at the keels, think of the massive loads of the boat going up & down in mud twice a day.

Twin keels also usually means less responsive handling ( probably not an issue ) and also they tend to funnel flotsam etc straight to the propellor, and you can't lift and clear the prop'.

Transom hung outboards are unseaworthy as the prop' comes out of the water, dangerous as you - with just your young daughter as crew - would have to dangle over the stern to operate it, if no remotes also dangling facing aft when close quarters manouvering !!!...

I do wish you every luck in finding a good boat though.