This is a good explanation as to why you wont be installing sodium batteries in your boat
- Thread starter geem
- Start date
shanemax
N/A
This has got to be the most biased negative video I have even seen. If you are bored count his negative comment's and negative words and you will have a job to keep up with him. I hunger for scientific facts and results not this school boy prats inflated biased ego.
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
You get nowhere on yt without a bit of sensational rubbish. But broadly he’s right. The biggest obstacle really is that so far, there isn’t the ability to stabilise the output voltage. I’m sure an input/output controller could be built that would make it put out 12.5V from full to empty, but until then, they won’t work well on a boat. Then doubtless there’s a lot of other improvements that will make early versions obsolete.
shanemax
N/A
Sodium-ion advantages over lead-acid
- Longer lifespan: Sodium-ion batteries typically have a cycle life of 4,000–6,000 cycles, compared to 300–500 cycles for lead-acid batteries.
- Better cold-temperature performance: Sodium-ion batteries perform well in cold temperatures, maintaining a higher percentage of their capacity at sub-zero temperatures.
- Higher energy density: They are lighter and more compact, meaning they can provide more energy for the same weight or take up less space.
- Greater safety: Sodium-ion batteries are generally safer than lead-acid batteries, as they are less corrosive and pose a lower risk of fire or explosion.
- Faster charging: They can charge much faster, with some models reaching 90% capacity in just 15 minutes.
- Environmentally friendly: They are made from more abundant and less toxic materials, making them a more environmentally friendly option.
shanemax
N/A
shanemax
N/A
Trying being a little more scientific and fact based.
geem
Well-Known Member
How much more scientific do you want. Do you not understand?
shanemax
N/A
There are dozens of sodium batteries on sale now. I understand the science is in its infancy but do you think all these companies and investors have thrown their money away. The commentator on your video is an annoying smug prat and that's how he gets all his "clicks" As I said he is an amusing smug prat at times but hardly scientific.
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
I’ve been looking at them. So far, they are not more energy dense, nor are they lighter, per Kwh. They don’t do as many cycles as a good Li battery yet either. Charging rates are important for cars, but utterly irrelevant for boats, or home solar installations. 3/10, must improve.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Clearly not. His biggest issue will be that Sodium doesn't compare well with LFP, he has a Bee in his bonnet about LFP, which he also doesn't understand.
geem
Well-Known Member
He knows more about battery tech than you will ever know
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Stemar
Well-Known Member
I'll wait a bit before getting Na batteries for Jazzcat. I'm sure they'll improve.
I upgraded my LA batteries just before LiFePO became seriously affordable. Knowing my luck, I'll put LiFePO in a month before Na or one of the other technologies becomes mainstream
I upgraded my LA batteries just before LiFePO became seriously affordable. Knowing my luck, I'll put LiFePO in a month before Na or one of the other technologies becomes mainstream
geem
Well-Known Member
One of the big issues that Will demonstrated was how low the voltage goes. Getting much below 12v isn't any use as a battery in a 12v system. Having so much of its capacity below 12v renders a chunk of sodium battery capacity unavailable to us. This derates the battery so you need more of them to give you the stored capacity of lithium.
Trident
Well-Known Member
Sodium will be the next big thing because it doesn't involve kids mining lithium and its likely to be cheaper with shorter supply lines.
BUT
"Will be" is the key - right now its got some issues much like LiFePo had 20 years ago but I am certain it will be a good replacement for Li in a few years - the same factories can build batteries with it, it should be almost as energy dense and a lot cheaper and more eco friendly ... but like all good things they will come to those who wait
BUT
"Will be" is the key - right now its got some issues much like LiFePo had 20 years ago but I am certain it will be a good replacement for Li in a few years - the same factories can build batteries with it, it should be almost as energy dense and a lot cheaper and more eco friendly ... but like all good things they will come to those who wait
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Simplistically, determine how many cells would be needed so that the battery never went below 13V, then add a DC-DC charger to give a constant, stable 12V. This could be built into the BMS. Doesn't overcome the other current drawbacks, such as charge acceptance, which is of particular importance to boat use and solar charging.
As Trident posts, it will likely all be sorted, but it isn't at the moment.
Ceirwan
Well-Known Member
I was looking at the spec sheet for one of these:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...ange_-_Instruction_Booklet_1.pdf?v=1748611953
They require a charging voltage of 15.5v, quite high. And at 20% state of charge the voltage is moving below 11v. Kind of on the low side.
Price wise they aren't cheaper.
Other than cold changing (which could be significant to some), I'm not really seeing many advantages here.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...ange_-_Instruction_Booklet_1.pdf?v=1748611953
They require a charging voltage of 15.5v, quite high. And at 20% state of charge the voltage is moving below 11v. Kind of on the low side.
Price wise they aren't cheaper.
Other than cold changing (which could be significant to some), I'm not really seeing many advantages here.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
That also states, amongst others:
To ensure the life cycle of the battery and for safe use the following must be adhered to:
● The battery must not be stored in high temperature locations, in direct sunlight or left inside a vehicle in hot weather.
● The battery must only be charged using a Sodium-Ion charger.
● When charging, the battery must not be left unattended or when charging for long periods.
● When fully charged the battery charger must be disconnected from the terminals and the mains power supply.
● The charging premises must have an appriopiate fire detection and alarm system and appropriate fire prevention
equipment.
● The battery charge state should be checked regularly and must be recharged to 80% at least every three months when
in storage.
● The battery is not able to be transported on passenger flights.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
The biggest producer of lithium is Australia- I don't think they have kids mining it there.
Maybe you're thinking of cobalt?
Ceirwan
Well-Known Member
Good catch, that sounds like a case of giving so many conditions to comply with that they would essentially never have to back up their products performance or warranty, that's quite a goldilocks set of conditions to follow.
I'm sure something better than LifP04 will come along at some point, but not today.
Alex_Blackwood
Well-Known Member
Just to be a bit of a "Devils Advocate" I would think that most if not all of theses conditions would be applied to any battery or charging facility.
