Think I upset a yachtie is this a crime??

[jon and michie]

Right - to try and get things back in perspective on this thread.

Excessive wash in moored up areas (I am simplifying this) - Is not good. - I am very aware of this.
my question initially was "was it a crime that a yatchie got so upset over a very slight wash" as I also said I could of done more in a bath.
I did expect this to be slightly lighthearted but with some good pointers/tips.
But I have to admit I didn't expect it to get so serious.

 

[rubberduck]

Welcome to the forum !
For what its worth I know the guy you are referring to, he is a miserable git so do not worry, I have also never seen him go anywhere, just seems to sit on the mooring drinking tea & moaning about every boat that comes out of the marina, where he has placed himself right outside the entrance (not the brightest), just ignore.

 

[oceanfroggie]

I am doing 6.5knots (below the speed limit)

Excessive wash in moored up areas (I am simplifying this) - Is not good. - I am very aware of this. My question initially was "was it a crime that a yatchie got so upset over a very slight wash" as I also said I could of done more in a bath.

Look, you are on the right track thinking about the issue, and well done for that. In fairness 6.5kt on some vessels may still generate inappropriate wash in some situations even if below the speed limit. As others have said speed is actually irrelevant, all that matters is your wake. For instance a jetski doing 30kt near anchored vessels creates virtually no wash, but at a lowly 5kt ploughing a big hole will generate enough wash to annoy some moored vessels.

The best tip is look behind and consider would you be happy the wash is small enough not to cause a problem for a child in a rowing dinghy you are passing. Bear in mind all that matters is your speed through the water not GPS speed which could lead to higher or lower water speeds depending on tide and wind. Wind against tide or river/estuary current can also amplify your wake.

Basically its just common sense, just be patient and go past with a wake you would be happy with if you were moored yourself on a jetty 200ft away in a smaller boat.

 

[Resolution]

. As others have said speed is actually irrelevant, all that matters is your wake. For instance a jetski doing 30kt near anchored vessels creates virtually no wash, but at a lowly 5kt ploughing a big hole will generate enough wash to annoy some moored vessels.

Quite right. I remember sailing a Folkboat in Hong Kong in about 1979 and being passed by one of the Boeing jetfoils doing about 45 knots. That's a thirty ton vessel carrying maybe 200 passengers. Passing less than a boat length away, there was virtually no wake at all. Just some dirty foam from the Pearl River.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Well I thought that the poster commented that they found it disconcerting when navigating at such a low speed in their motor boat, well just perhaps their boat behaves like a pig at minimum speeds, some are pigs, suggest that the poster gets some experience handling their boat at ultra low speeds with the various wind directions and whether single or twin props, plus YES wash is a major cause of disgruntlement in boating circles just be aware out there.

 

[Bru]

For a mildly worrying moment I thought the grumpy old codger referred to by the OP might have been me!

That's because I had cause to call across to a motorboat skipper that he was creating too much wash as he motored past the river pontoon at Fambridge last weekend and he replied, looking rather puzzled, that he was only doing 6 knots!

(add in over 2 knots of foul tide and guessing he was looking at his SOG he was almost certainly doing over 8 knots through the water)

I called back "it's not your speed, it's your wash" as the boats moored to the pontoon slammed up and down, fenders popped out and general mayhem ensued astern of him

Now in all fairness, the chap promptly throttled well back and proceeded at a more sedate pace through the rest of the moorings and on his return upriver later in the day came back through the moorings at little more than tickover! Credit where it's due

The Crouch Harbour Authority are currently running a "Watch your wash" campaign and they've introduced a "No wash" zone at Essex Marina (but not at Fambridge :disgust because the 8 knot speed limit is felt to be, at times, counter-productive

I'm not in any way anti-mobo. Some of my friends are motor boaters (bless them, they know not what they miss ) and a customer is a customer whatever boat they have (although I draw the line at jetskis which should be rounded up and crushed IMO). However, I genuinely feel that quite a few motorboaters don't understand how much chaos their wash can create

Whilst mobos can indeed become tricky to control at very low speeds compared to yachts, the counter argument is that yachts are designed to lean over and are particularly vulnerable to being hit by wash beam on. The CHA campaign has arisen from the regular damage being done to boats, of all types, at Essex Marina and we have the same problem upriver. And in mooring areas etc there's people rowing out to their boats, people swimming, people cooking and making hot drinks below decks and so on

I don't approve of anyone being abusive towards anyone* so my hail was as polite as I could make it (and in any case I figure that a polite request is more likely to get a positive response than a torrent of abuse ) but I've no qualms about asking somebody to slow down as much as they can if their wash is throwing boats astern of them all over the place

* Unless somebody makes me really angry and I loose it at which point I later wish I wasn't responsible for my actions!

We're all out there to have fun, do a job, or whatever and ideally we'll all make allowances for each other. I don't expect a boat to go past making zero wash but the problem is that some motorboats unwittingly (I suspect) make more wash than they realise and cause considerable discomfort and even actual damage to other boats

All I'm asking is that whatever the boat, people navigate past moored boats at the minimum speed compatible with safe navigation,keeping an eye astern to see what effect they are having on moored craft in their wake and never mind what speed the GPS, or the log for that matter, is reading

While we're on the subject, outside of speed limit areas it's to be expected that fast motorboats are going to be up on the plane and shifting (it'd be a bit pointless owning one if you never gave it the beans after all!). Don't have a problem with that per se but could I beg the indulgence of the motorboating fraternity and appeal for you guys to give us raggies a reasonably wide berth when passing? We then have the option to turn into your wake and take it head on which is much less disconcerting than getting slammed beam on which can be really unpleasant

Oh and while I'm on (sorry!) vis people UP masts, it might be me! Just glance aloft going past moorings because some poor sod of a marine engineer or rigger might be aloft out of necessity and it isn't always feasible or even possible to move a customers boat into a marina to do the work. You have no idea how frightening, uncomfortable and all too often painful it is to be at the top of a 12 or 15 metre mast when the boat is hit by the wash of another boat. That's when I go straight from Mr. Nice Polite Guy to Mr. Abusive Aggressive Guy without messing about with Mr. Annoyed But Being Polite Guy in between! Just saying

 

[nicho]

Welcome to the forum !
For what its worth I know the guy you are referring to, he is a miserable git so do not worry, I have also never seen him go anywhere, just seems to sit on the mooring drinking tea & moaning about every boat that comes out of the marina, where he has placed himself right outside the entrance (not the brightest), just ignore.

Well, there you go!

 

[Bigplumbs]

For a mildly worrying moment I thought the grumpy old codger referred to by the OP might have been me!

That's because I had cause to call across to a motorboat skipper that he was creating too much wash as he motored past the river pontoon at Fambridge last weekend and he replied, looking rather puzzled, that he was only doing 6 knots!

(add in over 2 knots of foul tide and guessing he was looking at his SOG he was almost certainly doing over 8 knots through the water)

I called back "it's not your speed, it's your wash" as the boats moored to the pontoon slammed up and down, fenders popped out and general mayhem ensued astern of him

Now in all fairness, the chap promptly throttled well back and proceeded at a more sedate pace through the rest of the moorings and on his return upriver later in the day came back through the moorings at little more than tickover! Credit where it's due

The Crouch Harbour Authority are currently running a "Watch your wash" campaign and they've introduced a "No wash" zone at Essex Marina (but not at Fambridge :disgust because the 8 knot speed limit is felt to be, at times, counter-productive

I'm not in any way anti-mobo. Some of my friends are motor boaters (bless them, they know not what they miss ) and a customer is a customer whatever boat they have (although I draw the line at jetskis which should be rounded up and crushed IMO). However, I genuinely feel that quite a few motorboaters don't understand how much chaos their wash can create

Whilst mobos can indeed become tricky to control at very low speeds compared to yachts, the counter argument is that yachts are designed to lean over and are particularly vulnerable to being hit by wash beam on. The CHA campaign has arisen from the regular damage being done to boats, of all types, at Essex Marina and we have the same problem upriver. And in mooring areas etc there's people rowing out to their boats, people swimming, people cooking and making hot drinks below decks and so on

I don't approve of anyone being abusive towards anyone* so my hail was as polite as I could make it (and in any case I figure that a polite request is more likely to get a positive response than a torrent of abuse ) but I've no qualms about asking somebody to slow down as much as they can if their wash is throwing boats astern of them all over the place

* Unless somebody makes me really angry and I loose it at which point I later wish I wasn't responsible for my actions!

We're all out there to have fun, do a job, or whatever and ideally we'll all make allowances for each other. I don't expect a boat to go past making zero wash but the problem is that some motorboats unwittingly (I suspect) make more wash than they realise and cause considerable discomfort and even actual damage to other boats

All I'm asking is that whatever the boat, people navigate past moored boats at the minimum speed compatible with safe navigation,keeping an eye astern to see what effect they are having on moored craft in their wake and never mind what speed the GPS, or the log for that matter, is reading

While we're on the subject, outside of speed limit areas it's to be expected that fast motorboats are going to be up on the plane and shifting (it'd be a bit pointless owning one if you never gave it the beans after all!). Don't have a problem with that per se but could I beg the indulgence of the motorboating fraternity and appeal for you guys to give us raggies a reasonably wide berth when passing? We then have the option to turn into your wake and take it head on which is much less disconcerting than getting slammed beam on which can be really unpleasant

Oh and while I'm on (sorry!) vis people UP masts, it might be me! Just glance aloft going past moorings because some poor sod of a marine engineer or rigger might be aloft out of necessity and it isn't always feasible or even possible to move a customers boat into a marina to do the work. You have no idea how frightening, uncomfortable and all too often painful it is to be at the top of a 12 or 15 metre mast when the boat is hit by the wash of another boat. That's when I go straight from Mr. Nice Polite Guy to Mr. Abusive Aggressive Guy without messing about with Mr. Annoyed But Being Polite Guy in between! Just saying

Very well said and from a raggie to boot

 

[Nograss]

Welcome to the forum !
For what its worth I know the guy you are referring to, he is a miserable git so do not worry, I have also never seen him go anywhere, just seems to sit on the mooring drinking tea & moaning about every boat that comes out of the marina, where he has placed himself right outside the entrance (not the brightest), just ignore.

I also thought I might be the "miserable git" you referred to but assuming you're referring to the same person the original poster is referring to it can't be me as I never had that conversation with anyone (see op), my boat isn't moored in the position referred to, I wasn't onboard on the Tuesday in question and last year we sailed way over 1,000 nm and did ~ 80 nm pottering/exploring in the rib. It will be a lot less this year for personal reasons that we all sometimes have for doing or not doing things at times. I apologise if that does not meet with your approval. In my defence I will disclose that in a year or two we'll be making up for it...

However, of concern is that I drink tea and don't have a permanent smile stuck to my boat (see what I did there?) My mooring was allocated to me by the marina (no choice - as I suspect is the case for most) and as far as my intelligence goes I would like to clarify and put on record that it's well above average (I have certificates to prove it but modesty forbids...) I therefore hope my presence on the moorings meets with your approval.

Given the description of the moored vessel's location I'm fairly sure I know the person involved. Having spoke to him on several occasions he seems OK to me and I can confirm that he smiles and I've even seen him laugh. Maybe it depends on what you do and say?

Mention of being up a mast reminds me - my other half was up the mast last year on our mooring (she volunteers...) and I had cause to shout at a motorboat skipper to slow down and pointed out his wash and my other half up the mast. His response was to shout back "F*** OFF!" and he carried on past us at the same speed. My other half was clinging on to the mast at this point. You can imagine how f***ing angry I was and if he'd have been standing next to me I might, no, definitely would not have been responsible for my actions. Let's move on...

I have to say that most boat skippers are considerate of their wash, but there is what I would describe as a sizeable minority that aren't. All of us have a common interest - being afloat in whatever kind of boat floats our, er, boat. Can't we all just learn to be a little bit more considerate?

 

[Bru]

Very well said and from a raggie to boot

Shhh, don't tell anybody but I sometimes suffer from motorboat envy

 

[CLB]

One thing often missing from these threads is the fact that motorboats suffer from the effects of wash too. Many sailors seem to think motorboater a have no idea about the effects of their wash, but that simply isnt true. We also moor on riverbanks, or banksides moorings, we also anchor in quiet bays, we also sometimes just potter for the enjoyment of being on the water. The majority of motorboats have experienced the effects of inconsiderate wash exactly the same as sailors. I have been passed at speed by big motorboats that were far too close, I have been slammed against the pontoon by people doing 20 knots in a 6 knot speed limit (genuinely 20 knots), but we have to accept we have no way to reach these individuals, who are actually small in number, to teach them the error of their ways, so the best you can do is plan for it and prepare your boat to minimise the effects. Then just get on with enjoying your time on the water without letting it fester and spoil your day.

 

[SnaxMuppet]

... But I have to admit I didn't expect it to get so serious.

The problem is that for many it is a very emotive topic especially if you have been injured as a direct result of inconsiderate wake making as I have.

It is great though, IMO, that the topic is discussed as it does highlight just how important it is not to create a significant wake when near moored/tied-up boats and it also highlights just how easy it is to do... and just how difficult it is to judge the size of your own wake from the boat creating it. The only tell-tail way is to look at the boats you might be affecting behind and if they are rocking about a lot and if so then just slow down. Imagine someone inside... not seeing your wake... holding a full cup of tea... would that tea have gone flying? Then you are too fast!

 

[jon and michie]

Snax muppet - I think it has turned into a good learning curve all round obviously myself included.
At the end of the day as Bru has stated everyone on the water is there to enjoy their passion be it jet ski yatching motor boating etc etc.
Just need to show more consideration.

 

[rubberduck]

I also thought I might be the "miserable git" you referred to but assuming you're referring to the same person the original poster is referring to it can't be me as I never had that conversation with anyone (see op), my boat isn't moored in the position referred to, I wasn't onboard on the Tuesday in question and last year we sailed way over 1,000 nm and did ~ 80 nm pottering/exploring in the rib. It will be a lot less this year for personal reasons that we all sometimes have for doing or not doing things at times. I apologise if that does not meet with your approval. In my defence I will disclose that in a year or two we'll be making up for it...

However, of concern is that I drink tea and don't have a permanent smile stuck to my boat (see what I did there?) My mooring was allocated to me by the marina (no choice - as I suspect is the case for most) and as far as my intelligence goes I would like to clarify and put on record that it's well above average (I have certificates to prove it but modesty forbids...) I therefore hope my presence on the moorings meets with your approval.

Given the description of the moored vessel's location I'm fairly sure I know the person involved. Having spoke to him on several occasions he seems OK to me and I can confirm that he smiles and I've even seen him laugh. Maybe it depends on what you do and say?

Mention of being up a mast reminds me - my other half was up the mast last year on our mooring (she volunteers...) and I had cause to shout at a motorboat skipper to slow down and pointed out his wash and my other half up the mast. His response was to shout back "F*** OFF!" and he carried on past us at the same speed. My other half was clinging on to the mast at this point. You can imagine how f***ing angry I was and if he'd have been standing next to me I might, no, definitely would not have been responsible for my actions. Let's move on...

I have to say that most boat skippers are considerate of their wash, but there is what I would describe as a sizeable minority that aren't. All of us have a common interest - being afloat in whatever kind of boat floats our, er, boat. Can't we all just learn to be a little bit more considerate?

OMG

For your info I have always made sure my boat is driven with the greatest respect for others, to the extent of stopping dead & waiting patiently for someone to pick up a buoy (we have skyhook so its interesting to see if it actually works)
On the occasion that we were shouted at by the "miserable git" my eldest son was driving, & was on his very best behavior as his girlfriends parents were both on board for the 1st time.
They both are intelligent people, doctors as it happens, & the wife actually said the guy was both ignorant & rude, unprompted by my son or I. They also both agreed that Sam had done absolutely nothing wrong.
As far as position of mooring, I have been resident at several marinas, & pay to be inside as my wife also likes tea, however if I have been allocated an unsuitable berth for whatever reason, I have had the wit to ask to be moved, never been a problem. Takes all types I guess!

 

[Bigplumbs]

I also thought I might be the "miserable git" you referred to but assuming you're referring to the same person the original poster is referring to it can't be me as I never had that conversation with anyone (see op), my boat isn't moored in the position referred to, I wasn't onboard on the Tuesday in question and last year we sailed way over 1,000 nm and did ~ 80 nm pottering/exploring in the rib. It will be a lot less this year for personal reasons that we all sometimes have for doing or not doing things at times. I apologise if that does not meet with your approval. In my defence I will disclose that in a year or two we'll be making up for it...

However, of concern is that I drink tea and don't have a permanent smile stuck to my boat (see what I did there?) My mooring was allocated to me by the marina (no choice - as I suspect is the case for most) and as far as my intelligence goes I would like to clarify and put on record that it's well above average (I have certificates to prove it but modesty forbids...) I therefore hope my presence on the moorings meets with your approval.

Given the description of the moored vessel's location I'm fairly sure I know the person involved. Having spoke to him on several occasions he seems OK to me and I can confirm that he smiles and I've even seen him laugh. Maybe it depends on what you do and say?

Mention of being up a mast reminds me - my other half was up the mast last year on our mooring (she volunteers...) and I had cause to shout at a motorboat skipper to slow down and pointed out his wash and my other half up the mast. His response was to shout back "F*** OFF!" and he carried on past us at the same speed. My other half was clinging on to the mast at this point. You can imagine how f***ing angry I was and if he'd have been standing next to me I might, no, definitely would not have been responsible for my actions. Let's move on...

I have to say that most boat skippers are considerate of their wash, but there is what I would describe as a sizeable minority that aren't. All of us have a common interest - being afloat in whatever kind of boat floats our, er, boat. Can't we all just learn to be a little bit more considerate?

What have you been drinking

 

[Nograss]

OMG
As far as position of mooring, I have been resident at several marinas, & pay to be inside as my wife also likes tea, however if I have been allocated an unsuitable berth for whatever reason, I have had the wit to ask to be moved, never been a problem. Takes all types I guess!

Then we are no different. But boat size, type, keel configuration, mooring availability, etc are all factors to be considered and most providers of swinging moorings will try to group similar vessels together for obvious reasons. For those reasons I do not think we have been allocated an unsuitable berth. I would guess the vast majority of other swinging mooring holders might say the same. In marinas we have asked for and been given an alternative berth when we thought it necessary, but at busy periods we know this might not always be possible.