Think I have seized my engine

[nashynetfit]

Dear forum

Last weekend I took my boat out for a test run on the gearbox, as have recently had to do some major work on this, but after just 2 minutes running I could see some smoke coming from the rocker cover, and also from the dip stick area, so headed back home.

Just prior to stopping I had to put the boat in reverse at high revs, which she did then cut out.

Since then she has struggled to turn over correctly, at first the starter seemed to turn, but it sounded like the batteries were flat, so batteries charged and even new ones added just result in a heavy clunk from the starter.

Both the fly wheel and alternator belt move a few mm but I can't turn the engine over by hand using the larger pulley, tried connecting a spanner to it, but there is no bolt end etc. mole grips would simply turn around the bar.

I had checked the engine oil about a month ago and all was fine, but now the engine oil was very low, so have filled to correct level, but my concern now is that maybe I may have seized the engine.

I would be grateful for any tips if possible on what to do, was advised it may be a starter motor jamming, but have given it a light tap with a hammer but no different, but feel it strange that last weekend it was trying to turn over, but now it's simply just clunking heavy.

Engine is a 2.2 diesel bmc

Thanks

 

[lynall]

As soon as you see smoke from any engine you should stop it and find out why.
Difficult to turn over is bad news.


Lynall

 

[rustybarge]

As soon as you see smoke from any engine you should stop it and find out why.
Difficult to turn over is bad news.


Lynall

Disconnect starter motor and unbolt. does it work when connnected to batt.?
If it does work, remove injectors from engine to stop compression.
Does engine turn over? (Replace starter.)
If starter does'nt work, do step 2 and put large monkey wrench into coupling link on prop.shaft to try to turnover engine.

Tricks to free up engine if partially siezed:
Empty cooling water, heat outside engine to high heat with very big blowtorch.
Pour hot oil into bores through injector holes.
Try to turn over engine with large stilson wrench on output shaft on gearbox....
P.s: i've never tried this!

Plan B: get cheque book out.

 

[LittleShip]

Good advise already given re remove starter and injectors but this worries me......

I had checked the engine oil about a month ago and all was fine, but now the engine oil was very low, so have filled to correct level

Tell me you checked the engine over before you left port to test the gearbox. It is prudent to check everything before you start up. Boats can't coast to the side of the road.

Personally I check over my engine every time before I start it and that includes after a night at anchor. You can't be too careful. This sounds to be an expensive learning curve.

Tom.

 

[MapisM]

Personally I check over my engine every time before I start it and that includes after a night at anchor. You can't be too careful.

Wow... While it's impossible to disagree with your conclusion, normally I rather jump in the water for a morning swim after a night at anchor, than go down in the e/r....
Chapeau to your commitment, anyway!

 

[LittleShip]

You will be welcome to have a swim off the back of LittleShip anytime you like, me,..... I'll be the one laughing on deck.

Just to add to the comment, lots tend to think that their boat engine/s can be treated the same as their car engine and that's where the problems start. I only have one and as such treat it with the upmost care. Catastrophic failure is something nobody can guard against..... Running short of oil, water, is !!!

Not pointing a finger at the OP but many just get on the boat, turn the key and never think of doing simple checks that may cause a problem when out on the water. Me well.... I'm a little cautious to say the least, but I do more miles per year than most.

So Mapism.... When you coming for a dip
Tom

 

[Pinnacle]

So Mapism.... When you coming for a dip
Tom

Let him know when the temperature of the water Little Ship is in is 28deg C, and I am sure he will oblige!

 

[MapisM]

LOL, absolutely.
Though actually, 28° is swmbo minimum requirement, not mine (with no wetsuit, at least).
Myself, I can afford 25/26°...

 

[aquatom]

It could be a gearbox problem if there has been recent work done on it. May be separating the gearbox from the engine and seeing if it will move would be a good check.

 

[rustybarge]

It could be a gearbox problem if there has been recent work done on it. May be separating the gearbox from the engine and seeing if it will move would be a good check.

...and don't panic. Slightly seized engine can be freed up without a re-build, if you are lucky.

 

[nashynetfit]

...and don't panic. Slightly seized engine can be freed up without a re-build, if you are lucky.

Many thanks for all your comments, I didn't realise that anyone had replied.

I will check the starter motor, as it did seem strange that it was turning over a little last weekend without actually starting, but now just seems stuck.

I know that the prop turns in both directions by hand when not in gear, but will try to unseize engine or at least get it to turn by hand before taking of gearbox again, as that was very awkward.

Thanks

 

[penfold]

If there was still oil on the dipstick(even if very low) it's unlikely to have been a lubricant failure related seizure unless the oil pump has given up or the sump strainer is clogged(not very likely); the smoking could imply a cooling failure related seizure. Was there plenty of water coming out of the exhaust?

 

[mad_boater]

I had a similar thing happen.It turned out to be the drive plate had collapsed and was jamming the engine.
Take the gearbox off before you despair too much.
good luck.

 

[mad_boater]

Any updates?

 

[nashynetfit]

Plenty of water was being pumped out, and the smoke from the engine was coming from the top rocker cover gasket being split and also from where the oil dip stick was, as there was not a good seal. The amount was like a cigarette not too much, but enough for me to turn back in.

I do recall that when testing the engines gearbox that the engine stalled a few times when going from forward / reverse, so I will check the drive plate incase thats the problems, but not had a chance to get down to the boat this weekend as baby sitting nephew.

I imagine the problem was due to my earlier mechanical exploits where I had taken the drive plate off and fitted it again the other way around, this was due to part of the inner spindle being warn out, as it looked like the drive plate had been put on the wrong way around first time.

I have attached picture of drive plate, but will be trying to go to boat tomorrow, so hopefully can take off gear box again (will be easier second time around) so can see if there is any other damage.

Is it OK to try and start the engine with gear box off, will try and turn by hand first.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[rafiki_]

If you have smoke from the rocker gasket and dipstick then this sounds like a piston and/or ring problem, not transmission I'm afraid.

 

[nashynetfit]

If you have smoke from the rocker gasket and dipstick then this sounds like a piston and/or ring problem, not transmission I'm afraid.

Thanks Rafiki,

Would that Jam the engine up, its just weird that the engine was trying to turn over the over week, (not seized) but as if the batteries were flat (which they were), but now after fully charged and even new batteries, its not wanting to attempt in turning over.

Been such an expensive project, so will soon call it a day as cant be putting a new engine in her.

Cheers

 

[rafiki_]

Thanks Rafiki,

Would that Jam the engine up, its just weird that the engine was trying to turn over the over week, (not seized) but as if the batteries were flat (which they were), but now after fully charged and even new batteries, its not wanting to attempt in turning over.

Been such an expensive project, so will soon call it a day as cant be putting a new engine in her.

Cheers

It is possible that your engine has suffered a partial seizure, so is recoverable, but you will need to take the cylinder head off to properly understand what has happened.

 

[oGaryo]

The logical next step for me would be to invest in a borescope, they're not expensive on ebay

 

[janglesea]

Do not attempt to turn the engine in gear from the propeller coupling, this will try and turn the engine through the gearbox and this is a bad idea.

Take the starter off, take the gearbox off, check the oil, pull the injectors. Try to turn the engine using the crankshaft nut - you may need to hire a 1" drive socket set with a large enough socket to do this. If it still won't turn over by hand in this state it is stuffed and is truly seized. In this case you may be able to hire or borrow a borescope to look inside the cylinders through the injector holes and see if any are scored or scuffed up, which will give you a clue what is going on.

Assuming that it is capable of being turned over by hand (which I bet it is, your description does not sound like an engine seizing through lack of oil but it is possible until you prove otherwise) then carry on to a starter test. Charge the batteries and test the starter off the engine. If it spins then refit the starter, if not then fix it or have it fixed. Once the starter is known to work and refitted, try to turn the engine over on the starter. If it turns over, then refit the injectors, bleed the fuel system and see if it starts. If it does not turn over on the starter with the injectors out, then again try and look inside with a borescope. If the engine rotates with the injectors out then put them back in, bleed them and see if it starts. You will not do harm by running the engine without the gearbox attached. Assuming it starts then your problem is in the gearbox, which is where you started... At least a gearbox costs less than an engine.

If the engine still does not turn over on a good starter but can be turned by hand, it is possible that the main bearings are so worn that the crankshaft and/or pistons, even the flywheel are jamming when the starter ring gear engages, but this is unlikely as an engine that far gone would have practically no oil pressure and be noisy as f@ck when running. My money is on the gearbox but if you do the tests I have proposed you will find out what the problem is and do no further damage in the process.