The Wide Wide World of Through Hulls!

[ashtead]

As you have no holding tank you could consider options for installing one but clearly can lead to extra blockage issues. I would replace the heads pipes as a starter-that might take a couple of days depending on construction. In reality as the smell is in inlet pipe this always happens if boat left unused but changing hose is first step. The old thing about valves is there seems no way to grease most of them so frequent opening/closing seems best option as I’m sure you do already when leaving boat . Loads of threads on heads smells and even a book by the Headmistress I believe which might entertain.

 

[vyv_cox]

What type of bronze are skin fittings normally made from? Are they Phosphor Bronze? Silicon Bronze?

Until recently most in UK were brass. When DZR valves were adopted from the plumbing industry there was no equivalent hose tail or skin fitting until about 10 years ago, when DZR ones came into production. These are always marked CR or DZR.

Bronze ones are leaded tin bronze, LG 2 or LG 4. These alloys are markedly red when compared with brass (plumbing fittings)

 

[bignick]

About time to change the ones on my boat then!
Yet another job for the winter haul out. Looks like she‘ll be getting a quick coat of anti foul slapped on instead of the normal proper job, so that I can do everything else I need to do…

 

[The Real Flipper]

I'm glad these things sometimes go a little off topic- you can learn a lot!

The stink in the heads is usually down to marine growth in the inlet pipe. It can often be cured by extensive flushing.

OK, that's interesting and it adds up because the smell is quite strong and not at all nice, but it doesn't actually smell like sewage.

IMHO There’s no reason of justification to connect electrically to through hulls. Decent quality bronze or DZR ones not connected electrically to anything else don’t need galvanic protection.

Some of the hoses in your pictures look decidedly dodgy and some don’t seem to be double clipped. (Best practice is to double clip all underwater hoses is my understanding.)

Wow that's also intersting. So you think the grounding was more to protect the through hull from corrosion than to actually ground (whatever electrical thing) it's attached to?

Double clips. Got it, thanks. Sounds like relatively cheap insurance, as insurance goes ;-)

The thru hulls are the skin fittings. The valves are the bits on the inside that screw onto the thru hulls.
Depending on what they’ve been installed with, you should be able to unscrew the Valve from the thru hull.
If they’ve been assembled with Sikaflex then it can be a challenge!

OK. So let me see if I've got this straight. They actually replaced the valves, but not the thru hulls?

Oh, and when you re-install the valves, make sure you can turn the handle!
Your second image looks like it has the handle directly beneath the hose tail of the adjacent valve, so I’m not sure you would Be able to close it anyway!

Right, that does look dubious now that you mention it. I'll test all the valves when I get back to the boat.
Sounds like it's good occasional 'servicing' anyway.

As you have no holding tank you could consider options for installing one but clearly can lead to extra blockage issues. I would replace the heads pipes as a starter-that might take a couple of days depending on construction. In reality as the smell is in inlet pipe this always happens if boat left unused but changing hose is first step. The old thing about valves is there seems no way to grease most of them so frequent opening/closing seems best option as I’m sure you do already when leaving boat . Loads of threads on heads smells and even a book by the Headmistress I believe which might entertain.

Head pipes? As in- inside the head unit itself? What is there like a rebuild kit or something?
Wait, is this information that I want to know LOL.

Also I wonder if flusing it out really well once it's in the water doesn't work, if its too far gone, that inlet hose (BTW I'm assuming inlet is the white one??) can be pulled off and bleached or something?

And I don't mean to complain but this 'to do' list is like a rocket to Mars- it's gone straight up ballistic!
One thing's for sure if I'm getting sailing this year, I'm going to have to work my *** off!

Assuming all the valves can be turned, is there some kind of shortcut that I can clean this brown mess up and seal it off until spring when she comes out for hull work? I'm getting pretty desperate to take something OFF of the 'to do' list

Thanks again everyone!

 

[The Real Flipper]

About time to change the ones on my boat then!
Yet another job for the winter haul out. Looks like she‘ll be getting a quick coat of anti foul slapped on instead of the normal proper job, so that I can do everything else I need to do…

Yeah I hear ya! I'm desperately seeking somewhere that I can cut a corner.
Looks like it'll have to be sleep LOL.

 

[bignick]

OK. So let me see if I've got this straight. They actually replaced the valves, but not the thru hulls?

yes, that’s what it looks like.

Assuming all the valves can be turned, is there some kind of shortcut that I can clean this brown mess up and seal it off until spring when she comes out for hull work? I'm getting pretty desperate to take something OFF of the 'to do' list

my number one rule with skin fittings is to not try to tidy them up. If they’re sealed and work properly then I leave them well alone, unless I’m going to remove them fully to either reinstall or replace them. Removing untidy sealant can cause a leak which you really don’t want and which may require your haul out to be brought forward to now.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

This is all part and parcel of buying an older and cheap boat, you are going to have to deal with all the shortcuts and things the previous owner did or didn't do. As I said in the rudder thread start with a deep clean from stem to stern inside all the hard to get at places, take a wire brush to the through hulls which don't look as though they have been changed, the valves have. I am in agreement with JRM there is no need to ground them to the electrical circuits, it can cause more problems than it attempts to cure. Change all the hoses whilst you are at it. Don't leave it to next spring or you will be where you are now, it's going to take quite some time to work your way methodically through the boat. Depending on how much time you have and your abilities you could have the boat ready for the water next year.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

yes, that’s what it looks like.



my number one rule with skin fittings is to not try to tidy them up. If they’re sealed and work properly then I leave them well alone, unless I’m going to remove them fully to either reinstall or replace them. Removing untidy sealant can cause a leak which you really don’t want and which may require your haul out to be brought forward to now.

Through hulls need to be bedded and sealed between the mating surfaces of the hull and the connector if it is relying on gobs of squeezed out sealant to do the job of sealing then it has not been sealed and secured correctly there is no reason in fact every reason to remove the old sealant that is covering parts of the fitting so that it's condition can be assessed by a good clean outside and inside with a wire brush which will determine if it has suffered from dezincification and of course what material it is made from and whether it needs replacing.

 

[ashtead]

Re the head pipes these are the big tubes attached to the seacock you are primarily concerned about with other end attached to the toilet which is a guess made by jabsco. Ideally you might replace whole unit by speaking to Leesan and get yourself a Tecma heads but new butyl pipe might be cheaper

 

[Tranona]

The through hulls are almost certainly bronze and the original valves would have been the same. The stainless replacements are fine. Just clean up around them and replace the rusty handle if you can. Definitely operate the valves regularly to stop build up of deposits around the ball.

However, as already suggested all the hoses need replacing as that type is porous and is one of the major sources of odours (along with bacteria in the inlet). Definitely no need for any earthing connections. The only thing that needs an anode is your propeller and that is achieved through the connection to the gearbox and across the coupling to the shaft.

 

[The Real Flipper]

yes, that’s what it looks like.
my number one rule with skin fittings is to not try to tidy them up. If they’re sealed and work properly then I leave them well alone, unless I’m going to remove them fully to either reinstall or replace them. Removing untidy sealant can cause a leak which you really don’t want and which may require your haul out to be brought forward to now.

Then I think it best to leave them alone and not mess with them. I don't need to cause any leaks that don't already exist!

This is all part and parcel of buying an older and cheap boat, you are going to have to deal with all the shortcuts and things the previous owner did or didn't do. As I said in the rudder thread start with a deep clean from stem to stern inside all the hard to get at places, take a wire brush to the through hulls which don't look as though they have been changed, the valves have. I am in agreement with JRM there is no need to ground them to the electrical circuits, it can cause more problems than it attempts to cure. Change all the hoses whilst you are at it. Don't leave it to next spring or you will be where you are now, it's going to take quite some time to work your way methodically through the boat. Depending on how much time you have and your abilities you could have the boat ready for the water next year.

I'm actually following your advice and cleaning the boat now. Whole thing. The decks were a nightmare til I figured out I was using a fraction of the recommended Oxalic Acid cleaner. The biggest challenge cleaning now is the interior which has literally every square foot covered in 'stuff' tools, materials, standing rigging, sails, dodger, various antennas, you name it its scattered everywhere. Too many projects at once! Once I get this rudder sorted I'm going to make a project of just organizing. But you're right a clean boat is easier to work on and definitely helps with the motivation

I'll be looking into hose options soon. Because that's where the smell is coming from for sure. They reek.

Through hulls need to be bedded and sealed between the mating surfaces of the hull and the connector if it is relying on gobs of squeezed out sealant to do the job of sealing then it has not been sealed and secured correctly there is no reason in fact every reason to remove the old sealant that is covering parts of the fitting so that it's condition can be assessed by a good clean outside and inside with a wire brush which will determine if it has suffered from dezincification and of course what material it is made from and whether it needs replacing.

So again if they aren't leaking I'll leave those valves and thru hulls alone unless they leak. I'm tempted to cover them up with something but then I won't see if problems arise which is a bad idea. I will be checking them ASAP when the boat goes in the water though ;-)

Re the head pipes these are the big tubes attached to the seacock you are primarily concerned about with other end attached to the toilet which is a guess made by jabsco. Ideally you might replace whole unit by speaking to Leesan and get yourself a Tecma heads but new butyl pipe might be cheaper

Hmm yeah those Tecma 'silent' electrics look pretty nice. I'll check the head pipes for now and see how they look. If I can get away with this toilet for a while I'll do. Everything is trying to eat money right now so its really taking some discipline to keep it reigned in. When you say butyl pipe do you mean butyl head pipes or the hoses?

The through hulls are almost certainly bronze and the original valves would have been the same. The stainless replacements are fine. Just clean up around them and replace the rusty handle if you can. Definitely operate the valves regularly to stop build up of deposits around the ball.

However, as already suggested all the hoses need replacing as that type is porous and is one of the major sources of odours (along with bacteria in the inlet). Definitely no need for any earthing connections. The only thing that needs an anode is your propeller and that is achieved through the connection to the gearbox and across the coupling to the shaft.

Right. I'll see if I can find some good bilge white paint maybe a glossy or semi glossy that cleans easy and is tough. Because I need it in the v-birth bilge, and to clean up that mess left by the mast support workers anyway. I'll leave the valves and through hulls be and just clean up around them as you say, to make it a little more tidy.

It appears the earthing connection was actually cut. Guess he decided it was a bad idea? There are other earthing connections near the stuffing box, two of them. I wonder if they replaced this one. Anyway, they are not directly on any parts except brackets that look purpose built. I'll upload a few photos next time.

BTW, the local marina shop has a sail drive hanging inside the front door. Totally corroded. Said it was due to the owner using it as a grounding point. When his charger was left running, it literally ate the sail drive. Pretty impressive amount of damage actually! I was quite surprised. The whole internals are exposed and it almost looks melted in spots. More corrosion than I ever hope to see on anything on my boat. I should take a few photos its a real looker!

 

[Tranona]

Best paint for bilges and under lockers is International Danbolin which is available in white, although I have done mine in grey. High opacity so 2 coats will cover well.

Saildrives are deliberately electrically isolated from the rest of the boat with their own anodes. Anybody who does not follow the clear instructions about this deserves the £5k bill for a new one!

 

[lustyd]

If you paint your bilges you’re adding a new regular maintenance item to your list every couple of years. Dirty GRP is just dirty, but it will happily stay that way. paint flakes off eventually and becomes a nightmare that will need to be regularly stripped and redone. My old boat was painted and I regularly cursed the previous owner. All you’ll see on here is pictures of lovely new painted surfaces looking nice, never of old dusty flaking ones a few years later. Always consider painting a very very last resort if you want to go boating. If you like working on boats then paint away, it will look nicer for a year, maybe two, and then you get a nice new project.

 

[bignick]

BTW, the local marina shop has a sail drive hanging inside the front door. Totally corroded. Said it was due to the owner using it as a grounding point. When his charger was left running, it literally ate the sail drive. Pretty impressive amount of damage actually! I was quite surprised. The whole internals are exposed and it almost looks melted in spots. More corrosion than I ever hope to see on anything on my boat. I should take a few photos its a real looker!

If you’re planning on leaving shore power connected to keep the batteries topped up then you really should fit a galvanic isolator.

 

[The Real Flipper]

Best paint for bilges and under lockers is International Danbolin which is available in white, although I have done mine in grey. High opacity so 2 coats will cover well.

Saildrives are deliberately electrically isolated from the rest of the boat with their own anodes. Anybody who does not follow the clear instructions about this deserves the £5k bill for a new one!

OK, thanks the International Danbolin is on my parts list.

Yeah funny that's exactly what the shop guy said about it. BTW, he also said 5 grand
I gotta get a photo of that thing. It's a good laugh. Will post when do.

And I have to loop back around on this topic because something is definitely grounded behind the engine. Will get some pics of that as well.

If you paint your bilges you’re adding a new regular maintenance item to your list every couple of years. Dirty GRP is just dirty, but it will happily stay that way. paint flakes off eventually and becomes a nightmare that will need to be regularly stripped and redone. My old boat was painted and I regularly cursed the previous owner. All you’ll see on here is pictures of lovely new painted surfaces looking nice, never of old dusty flaking ones a few years later. Always consider painting a very very last resort if you want to go boating. If you like working on boats then paint away, it will look nicer for a year, maybe two, and then you get a nice new project.

Yeah the fore peak hull is already painted and looking pretty dingy. It might actually clean up OK, we'll see.
The main thing is in the bilge under where they did the mast support replacement. It's permanently stained and looks terrible. No choice really on that one.
But I hear you- it's a valid point. I'll try not to go crazy making future work for myself!

If you’re planning on leaving shore power connected to keep the batteries topped up then you really should fit a galvanic isolator.

OK, it's added to my 'to research' list. This is an area that I want to get right for sure. So I will definitely follow up.
I'm getting to need a list of my lists LOL.
I have a 'parts list' to buy, a 'to do' list, and a 'to research' list.
The past week I got a little overwhelmed as was forced to make a 'priorities' list.
I need to hire a secretary just to manage my lists haha

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

If you paint your bilges you’re adding a new regular maintenance item to your list every couple of years. Dirty GRP is just dirty, but it will happily stay that way. paint flakes off eventually and becomes a nightmare that will need to be regularly stripped and redone. My old boat was painted and I regularly cursed the previous owner. All you’ll see on here is pictures of lovely new painted surfaces looking nice, never of old dusty flaking ones a few years later. Always consider painting a very very last resort if you want to go boating. If you like working on boats then paint away, it will look nicer for a year, maybe two, and then you get a nice new project.

Nobody, except you, sees the bilges.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

New paint will only flake off if you don't clean, prepare ( abrade) the surface and then degrease. Done properly the paint won't flake of and will help the boat stay clean and smell fresh. Having said that there is no reason why the internal flow coat can't be cleaned such that there is no requirement for painting, it just takes a fair bit of elbow grease.
A dirty boat is a neglected boat there is no excuse for not maintaining a clean boat and bilge.

 

[penfold]

The discharge hose on the lavvy looks like ordinary PVC reinforced hose; replacing this with sanitary grade hose with an odour barrier can reduce pongs.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The discharge hose on the lavvy looks like ordinary PVC reinforced hose; replacing this with sanitary grade hose with an odour barrier can reduce pongs.

Yes it's a prime example of a poorly / badly maintained boat done on a shoe string. It wants stripping out from stem to stern cleaning thoroughly and rectifying all the bodges. Only then is it worth starting to tackle the bigger items.

 

[lustyd]

New paint will only flake off if you don't clean, prepare ( abrade) the surface and then degrease

Who said anything about new paint? The problem comes when it's not new paint, hence the maintenance requirement to repaint every couple of years. The problem is these forums always concentrate on new paint and nobody ever comes back five years later to show the same paint and its condition. GRP lasts a lifetime, and the bare parts of my old boat were in excellent condition after 50 years. The painted parts were the absolute bane of my life.