The Wales Noah's Ark Photo-Story

[NOAH2]

Re: Insurance, Another Community Appeal.

The Matter Of Insurance?

In respect to matters pertaining to Houseboat M.V. Picton at Penarth Marina and the various postings on this and other forums of the yachting and boating world forums, and in relation to the Court Order for us and our home to leave Penarth Marina by 4.00pm October 28th 2003, we make fresh appeal to any insurance underwriters who have any interest in providing effective insurance cover (underwriting) this vessel, whether in situation or under towage, to contact us in the first instance.

Marie Louise and Vincent Shalom
Houseboat M.V. Picton
Penarth
Wales
CF64 1TQ

E-Mail WWWNOAHSARK@aol.com
Tel/Fax 02920 702870

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[NOAH2]

Re: Lets make things simpler!

I am interested in such conjecture.

"but once the keel hit the bottom the frames/planking spread under the extra load of the superstructure",

I wonder if you would clarify, is this an 'IMO opinion' or an 'EXPERT OPINION' as defined under Civil Procedure Rules 35?

Regards,

Noah

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[NOAH2]

Re: Insurance Issues? RE-Clyst

I do believe that there are many issues here but I am simply pointing out that the 'official' version of the situation, put out by Crest Nicholson Marinas Ltd., spokesperson (Mr. Simon Haigh, Operations Director Crest Nicholson Marinas Ltd) is that the vessel is "uninsured" and "leaking".

So..I am simply saying then...if the leaking is stopped and the insurance is restored doesn't it follow that Crest don't really have a problem with our presence in the marina....unless of course it has become deeply personal or there are other reasons?

Noah

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[ccscott49]

Re: Lets make things simpler!

So we've now turned into a lawyer, pity you didn't site some rules and regulations prior to this. Anyway I feel for you. It's not very nice being asked to move, I know, but I had to move, so be it, I moved!

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[kingfisher]

People who live in glass houses...

..shouldn't complain about their lack of privacy.

We have the same issues here in Ghent. A few years ago, due to an EU program to clean up the sector (by retirement bonusses), you could get a river barge for no money. And some people had the romantic idea to transform these into homes. Some had it done professionaly, with mixed results, but quite a few decided to do it themselves, with some interesting colour schemes and technical finishes. But they were all pleased about their "special" way of living.
Now they are complaining the city that they have no assurances that they can berth there. If you're so proud of your "special" way of living, don't expect the same legal protection as a "regular" homeowner
Oh, and people didn't realise that they're still boats. By now the majority needs their 5-year survey, which requires a 10.000€ haul out. Ouch, cause the hull only cost 15.000€
And the first winter was hard, when they realised that water is 5 times more heat conductive than air, and that you need a lot of insulation when all you have is 6mm of steel between you and the cold. And by now they are realising that you just can't go to the B&Q for 'regular' insulation. With your 'special' house, you need $pecial insulation. But they went for the home-version, and now they have rot and fungus, because of the condensation.
And the engine needs more than just a paint job. Because you can berth in the municipal port, and by the quai-sides, but you need to be able to move on 24h notice. So last year, when the city finally had the money to dredge its waters, they kindly asked the boaters to move for two days, so that they could dredge the waters. Chaos and mayhem, as many boats couldnt move, with engines and rudders seized.And some were outraged that they had to move.
So now commercial shipping is hampered by them, cause that is causing too much wash, which rocks their home and makes china cups fall on the floor.

But some people made it work, and do live in quite enviable surroundings. But it will have cost them as much as a house, and they have no security. But don't complain that you want to live outside of the box, but still want all the benefits of those inside. People live on a boat, because of the idea that they can move on a moments notice. Few realise that they can be made to move on a moments notice.

<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: People who live in glass houses...

Good post. A lot of sense talked here, a pity that Noah didn't take these considerations into account years ago.

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[tome]

Re: Insurance Issues? RE-Clyst

Noah

I can understand your frustration to an extent and your wish to maintain your family lifestyle, but I did ask myself the question would I want your houseboat in our marina? I'm sorry to say the answer is a resounding no as it's an eyesore in its present condition. Couldn't you consider removing the portacabin and replacing the topsides with something more sympathetic to the hull lines? It looks like a temporary building, not a boat.

It may be that this is behind the reluctance to accommodate you , and that insurance and other issues are a merely tools to achieve your swift removal. Sorry that this doesn't help but I've no axe to grind and that's how it appears to me.

Whatever the outcome to the boat I wish you and your family well.
Tom

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[clyst]

Re: Insurance, Another Community Appeal.

Noah

Would not THIRD PARTY ONLY cover be suffice to meet the marina's conditions ? If it is try :-
Basic Boat Liability Company
18 Bromley Road
Beckenham
Kent
BR3 5UW

Tel 08707 870040

Hope this will be of some use .
GOOD LUCK !!

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[NOAH2]

Re: Insurance, Another Community Appeal.

Clyst,

Thankyou for actually answering my appeal for help, practical help that is. I regret to say that this avenue has already been explored and with this company, many thanks though for the thought.

Regards,

Noah



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[Trevethan]

Re: Insurance, Another Community Appeal.

What was their reasonn for refusing you?

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[andy_wilson]

Blending in at Penarth Marina

Having followed the various postings with the disinterest of a fish of 5 seconds attention span - or whatever, I was interested to see the subject of the brouhaha.

The thing is, it doesn't blend in, it sticks out like carbuncle on the nose of a troglodyte.

Brading Haven (Bembridge) has a selection of oddballs, as does Chichester Canal if my memory serves. I'm sure other corespondents could suggest elswhere.

I honestly don't think you can expect a fond welcome at any marina marketing itself to the 'minted' who are looking to spend their leisure time impressing their guests within a marina environment.

I'm all for a bit of local colour, but honestly, whilever the upper works look like this, I think you're on a hiding to nothing. If it was akin to a duch barge deckworks I suspect the response might be different.

Can the hull safely take the weight of all that? I understand she suffered some damage due to grounding. I think I can see why.

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[tripleace]

Crane and stuff

If I remember correctly there was a argument about a crane and whether the RNLI had a crane big enough to life the houseboat.

Now it turns out the boat weighs around 40 tons plus whatever water is in the boat, the weight could be substantially more? who would want to lift a boat with possibility of damage and being sued?

This job is probably beyond being possible by normal cranes.

You may need to strip out the inside to reduce the weight, and whilst all this is happening Noah plus family have to live somewhere.

There is of course no guarantee that if the lift is successful the boat will still be watertight. Old boats with known water damage can easily have serious problems when lifted.

How serious is the water leak?

Are we talking 24 hour pumps or just a bildge pump kicking in a few mins per hour?

My guess is a lift out is going to be very expensive and very specialist, that is if the boat is going to remain afloat.



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.boating-ads.co.uk> Boating Website</A>

 

[hlb]

Re: Crane and stuff

Do B&Q still have a no quible returns policy??..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[petery]

Re: The Wales Noah\'s Ark Photo-Story

I'm afraid that this kind of thing happens/used to happen all the time with caravan sites - where you get thrown off after 10 or 20 years unless you buy a new caravan - probably because the site owner wants to keep up the appearance of the site to attract new residents.

Add to that a past 'grounding and toppling' accident plus no third party insurance cover if it happens again and , this time, damages someone else's boat - then the marina owner's attitude seems totally understandable.

Insurance brokers make commission on selling insurance - so if a broker cannot even get a quote for cover, then what chance have forum members... or was it that the quotes were too expensive?

In ther end it all comes down to money - if the price is high enough, someone will take the risk to insure; to lift; to tow ....






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[NOAH2]

Re: Crane and stuff

The only issue about the RNLI was that they have twice lifted a vessel at Penarth marina of very similar size to that of the Houseboat at Penarth Marina. We understand that Peter Nicholson (CREST Plc) was either Chair or Vice Chair of the RNLI at the time of at least one of the lifts. Point being, we were told our boat was not suitable to be lifted, even though it had been grounded, and has since developed a leak. We ask is this double standards?

The last time the boat was lifted and held in the crane it weighed approx 33 tonnes. It had a hardwood wheelhouse and saloon. This was replaced with a larger configuration but was made of soft whitewood. We reckon then that the weight is plus or minus a couple of tonnes. It would be foolish to lift boats with water in them. It doesn't take long to pump them dry.

The leak is sufficient to cause concern with a qualified professional Yacht Brokers Designers and Surveyors Association surveyor. It is recommened by way of professional survey that the vessel be lifted clear of the water at the soonest opportunity.

The lifting operation should be around £7,000.00 That's OUT and back IN the water. A picture can be seen of the operation on our story board.

regards,

Noah.

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[NOAH2]

Re: The Wales Noah\'s Ark Photo-Story

If Crest Nicholson Marinas Limited were or are ever genuinely or honestly concerned about the vessel sinking in situ or damaging other vessels, then we have a question?

Why do you suppose they didn't invoke rule 7 of the standard terms of contract which state, " The Company shall have the right to moor, re-berth, move, board, enter, LIFT ASHORE, SLIP or CARRY OUT ANY EMERGENCY WORK ON THE VESSEL, if in the Company's opinion such be necessary for the SAFTEY OF THE VESSEL or the SAFTEY and or CONVENIENCE of OTHER USERS of the harbour or for the SAFTEY of the COMPANY'S PREMISES, PLANT and EQUIPMENT and THE OWNER SHALL PAY THE COMPANY REASONABLE CHARGES FOR SUCH WORK.

We have requested permission to lift ages ago, it was denied. They could have lifted it ages ago, but they didn't. Now they appear to be saying it's a leaking uninsured hazard to other users of the marina and that's why it should leave. Nah, don't think this adds up.

THIS HOUSEBOAT IS INSURABLE AFTER IT HAS BEEN LIFTED, REPAIRED AS NECESSARY AND SURVEYED.

Regards,

Noah.

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[NOAH2]

Re: Blending in at Penarth Marina

Just for the record, this beauty of ours was approved BEFORE a single, top structure timber, was constructed. This was also BEFORE we entered the Penarth marina. From the scaled line drawings made available to the marina manager, every detail has been accurately reproduced.

The design was endorsed by this marina!

Regards,

Noah.

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[ccscott49]

Re: The Wales Noah\'s Ark Photo-Story

Why then hasn't it been lifted? I know about the RNLI fiasco, but thats not involved now, why has it not been lifted somewhere else? If you can not afford for it to be lifted, then that is another problem. If they dont want to lift it out, then they dont have to. Ever heard the expression "flogging a dead horse" I really think that is what you are doing now, even I would admit there is a time to give up, I'm sorry you have without doubt tried very hard, but you have also alienated a lot of people in the process. I feel for your family, it is never nice to have to re-locate, uless you want to! good luck in the future, but remember the golden rule, "He who has the gold, makes the rules" very, very sad, but I'm afraid true, in all walks of life. One of your other problems, is you do not fit the accepted mould, I also dont and was hitting my head against the stupid beaurocracy in the UK, Thats one of the reasons I left, along with politics, weather and costs. People do not like folk who do not conform to their norms, they think we are gypsies or vagrants or worse. Find somewhere else, amongst like minded people.

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