The Third Reef

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bluerm166

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Anyone found a neat solution to providing a the third reef line ? i.e.from the leach cringle down to boom.
It makes for rather a long unmanageable line if left in place,and there is room for only nos.1 and 2 plus the outhaul within the boom anyway.
Rigging a line when a third reef is called for is possible but messy.I use the second reef line at the boom for the lower attachment,making #3 line shorter,but it's still fiddly.
It's probably possible to hook/snap a tailored tackle through the cringle to avoid having to sweat it down but leaving a block at the cringle would be undesirable.
Anybody pleased with their arrangement ?
 
My Selden boom has room for four clew lines, plus the outhaul :)

The lower two are on single-line reefing, which works well enough although I'm not an unconditional fan. The third is too high in the luff for this (and there wouldn't be space in the boom anyway) so has two separate lines and works a lot more smoothly.

I don't find the line too long or unmanageable. I originally planned to strip off the cover on the parts that don't reach the cockpit, leaving just the thin white dyneema core inconspicuously against the sail, but I never bothered. I don't find the 8mm lines (green, yellow, red in order of scariness :) ) particularly ugly.

Pete
 
IMO You have to bite the bullet and leave in a line all the way to the 3rd reef, trying to fit the line in 30+ kts of breeze with the leach flogging all over the place doesn't sound like fun to me.

You could use a modern dyneema core rope to be very lightweight and have it tapered so the cover was only on the part of the line that passed through your clutches.

As for running the line, on my boom it comes through an aluminum line exit of the type you find for halyards on masts, it then goes through a block which takes it towards the eye in the sail.
 
Many boats have a loop of light line and/or shock cord joining the 2nd and 3rd reef points. It is used to transfer the 1st reef line to the 3rd reef point. You do it with the sail filled, preferably when the second reef goes in.
 
Just when the wind is really getting up you have the problem of getting the third reef in place - difficult and possibly dangerous if it requires standing on the coachroof. That's why when it came to the time to replace my mainsail I had it made with only two reefs; one at about point 1.4 and the second one at about point 2.75 when compared to the normal points 1, 2 and 3 for the reefs. Maybe not the most efficient approach, but certainly safe !
 
You could mount a turning block on the end of the boom and run the line to the mast end, a bit like this:

View attachment 59433

I use this for the outhaul and the in-boom carries the third reefing line. You can get the line on the reefing winch at the mast, it is not that handy but it works. I may swap it around so the reefing line is on the external set up.
 
lw395 said:
Many boats have a loop of light line and/or shock cord joining the 2nd and 3rd reef points. It is used to transfer the 1st reef line to the 3rd reef point. You do it with the sail filled, preferably when the second reef goes in.
Click to expand...

That is the arrangement I have: An endless loop of light line between leech cringles 2 and 3 which also incorporates a small eye. The reefing line for 1st and 3rd reef has a thin line sewn into its end. When the reefing line is to be transferred from cringle 1 to 3, the thin line and the small eye are knotted together, like a sheet bend.
In my case this can be done standing on the cockpit seat, which is not what you like to do in situations when the third reef is called for. Still I have managed to do it, even single handed (autopilot steering).
Because of how fiddly it is, I always now try and arrange the reefing lines before leaving port.
If gusty conditions are expected, I take 1st reefing line to cringle 3, so that my first reef effectively will be number 2.
Should also mention I reef by the mast, nothing led back to the cockpit.
 
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prv said:
The lower two are on single-line reefing, which works well enough although I'm not an unconditional fan. The third is too high in the luff for this (and there wouldn't be space in the boom anyway) so has two separate lines and works a lot more smoothly.
Click to expand...
My reading here is that your single line system incorporates internal shuttle blocks?

prv said:
I originally planned to strip off the cover on the parts that don't reach the cockpit, leaving just the thin white dyneema core inconspicuously against the sail, but I never bothered. I don't find the 8mm lines (green, yellow, red in order of scariness :) ) particularly ugly.
Click to expand...
Can I ask what is the area of your mainsail?

My questions here are because I am thinking of single line reefing and to reduce friction in the system I plan to drop from my current 10 or 12? mm polyester braid to 8mm dyneema. This is for a 420 sq ft mainsail. I am also considering sewn-in rings & blocks at the leech cringles.
 
My Z-spars boom carries four sets of sheaves, three reefs and an outhaul.

Reefs 1&2 are single line 6mm dyneema without blocks or any other sort of impediment in the boom.

Reef 3 is a slab reef with a line to the clew only. When I put it in I have to go to the mast to deal with the tack which is held by a big snap shackle on a dyneema strop which attaches to spectacles through the cringle.

Like Pete I am not an unconditional fan of single line but it works on my boat for three reasons:

1) the 6mm dyneema is much thinner than the 8-10mm the boom sheaves were designed for and this results in massively less friction;

2) more importantly perhaps, the main runs on a Tides Marine teflon track and if you have not seen one of these in operation they are a revelation. Friction on the luff/mast is minimal and the sail can be hauled down easily even when powered up. (Head to wind the main drops into the stackpack under its own weight every time);

3) the reef lines come back to twin-speed Harken 35.2 coachroof winches (on a 30ft boat with a c. 26 m2 main).

The halyard and all the reef lines are marked with whippings at their reef points to make life easy. All you have to do is drop the halyard to the reef point and pul the corresponding reef line in. I can reef the boat, including reef 3, on practically any point of sail. I have not tried it on a run, but it certainly can be done with the wind aft of the beam (indeed you can still drop the main completely in one action on a broad reach). Other than being slab, the thrid reef does not work in any way different to the othe rreefs and putting a reef in takes, meh, 10-20 seconds.

When not flaked down all the reef lines live out of the way in cockpit halyard bags.

The reason for mentioning all this is to make the point that it's not just about how you configure your reef line(s) for your third reef, it's about the gear which handles the sail and the line itself. If you have it all working together to reduce friction you won't find it difficult to get a no-stress third reef arrangement. So go look at blocks, winches, mast track and line material/size as well as the reefing arrangement in order to find a solution which works for you.

If I only had 3 sheaves in the boom I would probably fit 3 reefs and tie the outhaul off on the end somehow, until I got a new boom! But I have a light boat in the Bristol Channel and she needs to go through her reefs like gears. If you have a bigger boat which is going to be on full sail all the way to 20kts it would of course be different.
 
Many thanks for such a response.
As has been said , the way the whole system is rigged and used needs consideration,so although I have read through the comments there are details/suggestions in each that require more study in the morning when I have a clear(er) head.
Thanks.
Peter
 
Much depends on your sailing style. If you think you may be caught out at sea and need the 3rd reef then perhaps the second could be sacrificed. ie go from one reef to no 3. A big step but if you are not racing perhaps the fine increments are not needed. olewill
 
My main does not have a third reef.
If the second one is not enough, out comes the trysail and this avoids any problems with having a swinging boom in hairy conditions.
 
Onia said:
Just when the wind is really getting up you have the problem of getting the third reef in place - difficult and possibly dangerous if it requires standing on the coachroof. That's why when it came to the time to replace my mainsail I had it made with only two reefs; one at about point 1.4 and the second one at about point 2.75 when compared to the normal points 1, 2 and 3 for the reefs. Maybe not the most efficient approach, but certainly safe !
Click to expand...

I had a similar approach with boom with only two reef lines, on new main had both 1st and 2nd reefs made deeper, but a third one added anyway. For coastal or cross-channel passages the need for a third reef should not be a surprise, so if a bad forecast rig 2/3 instead of normal 1/2 before departure. The original 1st reef was rarely deep enough: you often went straight to no 2.
 
I almost invariably sail single-handed and I have rigged Khamsin so that I don't need to leave the cockpit if at all possible.

With the result that reefs #1, #2 and #3 are separate, permanently rigged and all six downhauls and leach-lines come back to clutches on the cabin top. I know it makes for a "lot of string", which in itself might be considered a problem/hazard, but it's the price I prefer to pay.
I have needed to reef to #3 a few times and was grateful all went well and I could remain in the relative safety of "the office".

However, this post has stirred the thought processes, thank you, and I'll be re-thinking the issue. Keep the non-in-boom reefing ideas and tips a-coming please.
 
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bitbaltic said:
If I only had 3 sheaves in the boom I would probably fit 3 reefs and tie the outhaul off on the end.......
Click to expand...
That's what I have L outhaul is a turnbuckle with a short loop of steel wire rope. Just need to remember the tension/release it.
Having said that, the only time the deep 3rd reef has really been used is to lessen the awful slatting when becalmed way offshore.
 
My reefs 1&2 are single line from the cockpit & i can carry 2nd reef plus full self tacking jib up wind in bottom end of f8
To get 3rd reef i have a strop laying around the boom in the sail bag ( lazy bag) i drop the main, pass the strop through the cringle in the leech. Unclip the main outhaul ( thus not touching reefs 1&2)& connect to the strop. Go forward where i have a strop to hook the spectacles on the luff of the main ( this is pre adjusted to go over the stack of sliders in the mast groove) tighten the outhaul then hoist the main again.
I have only been in a f9 once in this boat in 13 years so it is not something i have had to do on a regular basis but is fairly easy apart from going forward to hook the luff. But with a total sail drop & boom down i have something to hold on to
 
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lw395 said:
Many boats have a loop of light line and/or shock cord joining the 2nd and 3rd reef points. It is used to transfer the 1st reef line to the 3rd reef point. You do it with the sail filled, preferably when the second reef goes in.
Click to expand...
+1 a loop of light line between 2nd and 3rd crinkles. Rove in the third reef when you have to put the 2nd reef in, not when you need the 3rd reef.
 
Although I can see the need for a third reef, I don't think I ever rigged mine in thirty years, and so have settled for two deep reefs instead, on the recommendation of a sailmaker. Since I can sail happily to windward under full sail with 20 knots app wind, and weather up to 28 if necessary, I can't see the likelihood of going beyond my 2nd reef in northern European waters and passages of no more than 2 days. I might think differently if I wanted to do a Biscay crossing, or perhaps Norway to Scotland.
 
I'm a fan of halyards and reef lines at mast as I sail solo and have found (with cockpit led lines) that invariably I have to go to the mast or boom to sort reefing issues.

I have bog standard slab reefing with the 3rd permanently in place, with cringles on the luff and rams horn at the goose neck. Am gonna add spectacles to the cringles when I next get the sails serviced.

I have been grateful for a 3rd reef numerous times.
 
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