The sublime and the ridiculous - boatshow

[Tranona]

Exhibiting my 41 year old Fulmar at the show, I am hearing lots of similar comments from visitors to Concerto. Several Bavaria owners with boats from the mid 1990's have said they would not buy thire new product offerings. Then I have heard the same from owners of Hanse, Beneteau, et al and even Halberg Rassey.

Also I am hearing comments like it nice to be on a proper yacht like Concerto rather than the plastic fantastics and IKEA boats. There is certainly a market for more traditionally designed and finished boats. I doubt if any modern builder could make them at a competative price, especially in the under 35ft range. Several people have commented they know of people who are buying an older boat because they like the shape and construction methods and then paying for it to be fully refurbished with all the latest kit. It not only works out cheaper than buying new, it is usually delivered quicker to the owner and the owner has far more input in getting the boat how he (and or she) wants it.

There is a lot of truth in both your main propositions. As I remarked earlier builders have moved away from the UK market's requirements because it is no longer a significant market for them. So not surprising that owners of older boats from the same builders are not attracted to the latest offerings - at least for use in the UK.

The glory days of the new boat market, roughly 1996- 2008 produced many really excellent boats at affordable prices in the under 12m size range from initially the big 3 later joined by Hanse. The odd dud but huge choice. Bavaria for example were bringing in new models every year, almost all better than the previous ones and sometimes even at lower prices. While some of the finish and construction was bit basic, most have stood the test of time and make good buys today. 2008-2011 was a transition period for many builders with falling volumes and financial insecurity and some of the designs of the period were indeed duds. This was the start of the big shift to what I call "holiday" boats, larger size, open plan, outdoor living and so on all in a style very different from 10 years earlier. That trend has continued.

Would I buy a new Bavaria? Yes, because they still make a version of my Farr design, but that whole range of boats from 2011 is on its way out. All the new boats are of the new style and over 40'. As good or bad as their competitors and hold no attraction for me. It will be interesting to see what they replace their Cruiser range with, but guess it will be similar to their competitors and probably also not attractive to me. Really glad i bought when I did - both times. Builders go through cycles and there are sweet spots when they get almost everything right either in general or with specific models.

Fully refurbishing older boats has been going on for some time, but the economics are against it for smaller boats if done professionally and even DIY with bigger boats can end up way over planned budget as many have reported on here. The supply of boats that are worth doing up is also shrinking as they get older and require even more work, so doubt it will ever be more than a specialist fringe activity.

 

[Concerto]

I certainly do not disagree about renovating older smaller yachts. I originally expected to spend about £12,000 improving my Fulmar but with a lot of major improvements and upgrades I have over nearly 8 years spent about £26,000. This cost overun does not bother me as I have the boat I like and have changed it to be to my specifiction that will allow me to keep sailing her well into my 70's and possibly early 80's (I am 67 now). With over 90% of all the things on my renovation list completed, I now only expect basic maintenance from now on, as I get the benefit of all my investment in time and money - not the next owner.

 

[lustyd]

The conclusion does not show that at all. It shows that boats of all sizes and types were stable for a long period of time but have shot up in the last 3 or 4 years. Buyers looking for a family cruiser in the mid 30' foot range (does not matter if it is notionally 34, 35 or 36' long do not have the range of choice compared with the past and real prices are substantially higher. Your conclusion does not make sense.

But in real terms the new boat is cheaper than the old boat so your assertion that boats have shot up is incorrect and based on comparing smaller boats with larger ones. Boats are actually cheaper than ever.

 

[C08]

Interesting some on mentioned a new 31 foot boat coat 130,000. that would be worth around 16,000 in 1975.
Anyone know how much 31 foot new boats were in 1975?

My Catalac 8M cost the original owner new £9K in 1975 if that is any help as a price guide. As a comparison we bought a detached bungalow in 1974 for around £8k.

 

[flaming]

Exhibiting my 41 year old Fulmar at the show, I am hearing lots of similar comments from visitors to Concerto. Several Bavaria owners with boats from the mid 1990's have said they would not buy thire new product offerings. Then I have heard the same from owners of Hanse, Beneteau, et al and even Halberg Rassey.

Also I am hearing comments like it nice to be on a proper yacht like Concerto rather than the plastic fantastics and IKEA boats. There is certainly a market for more traditionally designed and finished boats. I doubt if any modern builder could make them at a competative price, especially in the under 35ft range. Several people have commented they know of people who are buying an older boat because they like the shape and construction methods and then paying for it to be fully refurbished with all the latest kit. It not only works out cheaper than buying new, it is usually delivered quicker to the owner and the owner has far more input in getting the boat how he (and or she) wants it.

Well it would be a very odd person who accepted your hospitality and then said "gosh, weren't these old boats rubbish, I'm off to buy a Hanse!"

P.s Hopefully see you tomorrow....

 

[Concerto]

Well it would be a very odd person who accepted your hospitality and then said "gosh, weren't these old boats rubbish, I'm off to buy a Hanse!"

P.s Hopefully see you tomorrow....

Look forward to meeting you.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Well it would be a very odd person who accepted your hospitality and then said "gosh, weren't these old boats rubbish, I'm off to buy a Hanse!"

P.s Hopefully see you tomorrow....

Look forward to meeting you.

I am reminded of a cartoon in a bike magazine. The cartoon features a front door of a terraced house opening directly onto the pavement, with the street corner just to the left. An older flat capped gentleman has just knocked on the door and a hairy biker has answered the door.

Flat cap gentleman, "I am here to see about buying your advertised, chopped Vincent Black Shadow ."

Off to the left of the cartoon, and just round the corner from the house front door, is a gang of old, flat capped gents armed with pitchforks and clubs.

Be careful flaming.

 

[RogerJolly]

I am reminded of a cartoon in a bike magazine. The cartoon features a front door of a terraced house opening directly onto the pavement, with the street corner just to the left. An older flat capped gentleman has just knocked on the door and a hairy biker has answered the door.

Flat cap gentleman, "I am here to see about buying your advertised, chopped Vincent Black Shadow ."

Off to the left of the cartoon, and just round the corner from the house front door, is a gang of old, flat capped gents armed with pitchforks and clubs.

Be careful flaming.

What a great nostalgia hit that's given me. Remember the cartoon clearly. Back in
the day when I alternated between obsessively reading Bike magazine and boat magazines.

 

[dunedin]

That would be the equivelant of a 1990's 36 footer (or bigger) though, so not a good comparison to make.

Generally load waterline length is a better proxy for boat size than LOA

 

[lustyd]

Generally load waterline length is a better proxy for boat size than LOA

length is a terrible way to judge size. As I've pointed out in several posts the lack of sugar scoop and vertical bow give the new boat more room than an equivalent old boat which had traditional bow and sugar scoop. But the point still stands that the new boat in question is 36 feet in length and the old one was 34 feet in length even before taking those things into account. The new boat is completely incomparable to the old one and obviously costs more because it's a bigger boat. The original thing I was responding to (which may well have been forgotten) was that someone suggested new boats cost more because in real terms the new 36 cost more than the old 34. We can discuss boat sizes all you want but the fact remains that the new boat is larger in every conceivable way and has considerably better accomodation

 

[Frogmogman]

I am reminded of a cartoon in a bike magazine. The cartoon features a front door of a terraced house opening directly onto the pavement, with the street corner just to the left. An older flat capped gentleman has just knocked on the door and a hairy biker has answered the door.

Flat cap gentleman, "I am here to see about buying your advertised, chopped Vincent Black Shadow ."

Off to the left of the cartoon, and just round the corner from the house front door, is a gang of old, flat capped gents armed with pitchforks and clubs.

Be careful flaming.

? I remember that one too.

Shobba was a genius.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

What a great nostalgia hit that's given me. Remember the cartoon clearly. Back in
the day when I alternated between obsessively reading Bike magazine and boat magazines.

? I remember that one too.

Shobba was a genius.

And here it is. I have a few details wrong e.g. its Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini hiding round the corner, seriously tooled up to do damage.

https://uk.rec.motorcycles.narkive.com/cFmJIYYv/shobba-cartoons

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

? I remember that one too.

Shobba was a genius.

I was more of a Paul Sample fan, and mention of bike cartoons has nudged me into writing to the man himself to get a copy of the strip in which my hero's throttle gets stuck.

 

[Frogmogman]

And here it is. I have a few details wrong e.g. its Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini hiding round the corner, seriously tooled up to do damage.

Shobba cartoons

Love it, and also the one of the dispatch riders hiding was always a favourite.
I also thought the Panther Owners Club football team was brilliant.

Huge fan of Paul Sample and Ogri (of course !!)

 

[Stemar]

Anchor threads anyone?

 

[colind3782]

I was more of a Paul Sample fan, and mention of bike cartoons has nudged me into writing to the man himself to get a copy of the strip in which my hero's throttle gets stuck.

He lives up the road from me.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

He lives up the road from me.

Ooh, that's handy - he hasn't answered my email yet, could you go and knock?

 

[colind3782]

Ooh, that's handy - he hasn't answered my email yet, could you go and knock?

Unfortunately, he's moved from his old house in the village to Whitchurch, still local, but I don't know where he lives exactly now. However, we didn't exactly get on!

 

[dk]

And under 30 simply doesnt exist.

Swallow Boats, Shrimpers etc?

 

[dk]

I like the 60-yr old mahogany seat of my Blakes; having been used an estimated 100,000 times, by persons unknown and known, it has acquired a deep shine and colour. I have a spare but doubt it will ever be needed..

Sell the spare and buy another boat with the proceeds! ?