The Solent to The Kiel canal

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rodper

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Hi

Sailing from Hamble river i the beginning of June aiming for The Kiel canal. Studying the internet, talking to people and off course now also asking on this superb Yachting Forum:) Got many good answers on other threads here.

So, I guess many of you have sailed this route before. Can you please give me your best tips/advise. Everything is of interest, Good harbors (and which to avoid), passing Dover straight, wind farms, currents, what to pay attention to and so on.

We are 4 people on board with good experience from sailing in the Baltic but this is our first time outside our pond:D
The boat is a safe old updated Hallberg Rassy with modern equipment.

Just answers, no jokers thanks.

Kind regards
Per
 
Hazards include swarms of small fishing boats off the Friesian Island and the awesome current in the extremely busy Elbe.

Nordeney is nice but Helgoland nicer - also duty free booze there. Don't go into Borkum!

Stock up with food etc in Germany- much cheaper then Denmark.
 
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rodper said:
Hi

Sailing from Hamble river i the beginning of June aiming for The Kiel canal. Studying the internet, talking to people and off course now also asking on this superb Yachting Forum:) Got many good answers on other threads here.

So, I guess many of you have sailed this route before. Can you please give me your best tips/advise. Everything is of interest, Good harbors (and which to avoid), passing Dover straight, wind farms, currents, what to pay attention to and so on.

We are 4 people on board with good experience from sailing in the Baltic but this is our first time outside our pond:D
The boat is a safe old updated Hallberg Rassy with modern equipment.

Just answers, no jokers thanks.

Kind regards
Per
Click to expand...

From memory, sailing that area many years ago in a BT Challenge yacht, it was unnerving to see the gps position details running/changing faster than we could log, due to fast tides to the east of Sandettie light, so be aware & use in your favour.
 
Over Easter, we did a Portsmouth to Hamburg trip. Our stops were Scheveningen, Den Helder and Cuxhaven. In addition to Imray charts, Reeds Almanac provides a wealth of useful info. We crossed a few miles north of Dover. AIS and radar are both good aides.
 
As you say, this has been covered before. There are plenty of interesting places all the way but I would advise leaving visiting them for your return journey which is more likely to be held up with headwinds. You can travel from Flushing to Delfzjl without going to sea, and I have been forced to do this more than once when returning.

There is no need to be unduly alarmed about the Frisian Gats in any half decent weather, but a blow from the NW or N is always going to be potentially dangerous. I like Norderney and have spend several weeks there out of choice enjoying the town and wildlife. Helgoland is fun except when crowded in a blow, but a bit out of the way through the shipping channels. Straying into the turning area results in hefty fines. If visiting, it is better to go early if you want to see the nesting gannets, cormorants and kittiwakes. I agree that Borkum is not worth visiting, though I had a friendly reception a few years ago. It adds too much to the length of the journey too. Locals tell me that Langeoog is very nice, but the entrance is not so easy. For the adventurous, you could go into the Eider. Friends left this way in a 45' yawl.
 
OP: are you happy to do a long hop across the North Sea (you apparently have the crew for it), or do you want to take your time harbour-hopping through Belgium and Holland (your other thread says you have four weeks to do the trip to the Kiel Canal)? Makes a difference to advice.

Either way, the E end of England’s S coast is pretty dull so I would time a departure from the Solent - or perhaps from Chichester harbour which is beautiful - to take the progressive E-going tide all the way to Dover. If you consult the tide tables (you should get Reed’s Almanac for the trip - will take you all the way up to Den Helder - and they’re in there) you’ll see the time you can leave the Solent and get to Dover just as the tide changes. Then treat yourselves to a day in Dover exploring the castle.

Also either way, Brian Navin’s North Sea Pilot book will show you routes and tidal timings for whatever you want to do. It’s brilliant. I (accidentally) have two copies, and our boat’s in the Hamble too, so happy to drop you a copy if it’d help. PM me if so.

Beware the 2017 changes to the TSS off Rotterdam unless your charts are more recent.

I don’t pretend to know the North Sea routes myself: I have sailed from Hamble round to London a few times, and across to Amsterdam, but not more. I’m researching a possible Summer cruise myself up through the Kiel Canal and into your gorgeous Baltic waters.
 
For a competent navigator, there is nothing particularly challenging. However, once past
Den Helder be aware that the only all weather/tide harbour is Helgoland. All others, including the Elbe, are classified as hazardous/dangerous in certain conditions. Your pilot
book will have specific details. Always be aware of the weather forecast.

That coast has much commercial traffic and is closely monitored by radar and patrol vessels. Pay attention to IRPCS, especially relating to crossing shipping lanes and display of signs. Yachtsmen have been fined for infractions.

Do look out for the occasional " professional " skipper who makes up his own rules!

You can get the rules for the Kiel canal at www.wsa-kiel.de/Service/Publikationen/Anlagen/eng_Merkbl_Sportbootfahrer.pdf


When being overtaken by large vessels in the canal, do not keep too close to the banks. The water displacement can cause the surface to drop by half a meter or so.

Hope this is helpful,

Andy

Just checked the link which doesn't work. Google ' Kiel canal rules for pleasure craft ' and find it that way.
 
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The "outside" route is fast, fairly safe and extremely boring. The inland route via the Schelde, Rotterdam and Amsterdam is slow, meandering, very safe (especially in a blow) and full of interest. Look up the "Standmast-route" if you are interested in this

Getting into Cuxhaven for Brunsbuttel requires careful planning - the tidal gate starts a long way out, the currents are strong, and there are many, many big ships going to and fro Hamburg to look out for. Eminently doable, but do make sure to arrive at the river entrance with the incoming tide, or you'll spend a long time motoring and dodging sandbanks.

The Kiel/Nordzee Canal is again easy and very doable. It can be done in a day, starting earlyish and finishing late (you can only do it in the hours of daylight). If you want to stop, there are marinas at each end and one halfway. But do get an up-to-date copy of the Canal rules and regulations and stick religiously to them, especially the light signals. We didn't - we entered a lock behind a lot of other small craft, figuring they must know what they are doing, they didn't - and paid a 50 euro fine!

And do make sure to get this year's charts whichever way you go. And don't be shy about asking for information from the harbourmasters, they generally like English boats and will go out of their way to be helpful. Bon Voyage!
 
rodper said:
Hi, to add to the other suggestions re the 'outside' route
Solent to Dover - fair tide all the way possible.
Dover to Den Helder - route NE with fair tide keeping shipping lanes to starboard before turning near N Hinder for Den Helder.
Den Helder to Cuxhaven along inshore route outside the Friesian Islands.
Cuxhaven to Brunsbuttel
Brunsbuttel to Kiel ( Rensburg a good intermediate stopover.

This route allows maximum choice of fair tides and favourable wind directions plus avoiding most of the shipping in the South North Sea.
Have a safe passage
CBT

Sailing from Hamble river i the beginning of June aiming for The Kiel canal. Studying the internet, talking to people and off course now also asking on this superb Yachting Forum:) Got many good answers on other threads here.

So, I guess many of you have sailed this route before. Can you please give me your best tips/advise. Everything is of interest, Good harbors (and which to avoid), passing Dover straight, wind farms, currents, what to pay attention to and so on.

We are 4 people on board with good experience from sailing in the Baltic but this is our first time outside our pond:D
The boat is a safe old updated Hallberg Rassy with modern equipment.

Just answers, no jokers thanks.

Kind regards
Per
Click to expand...
u
 
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Re some points from above, the Elbe entrance is not especially fearsome except with a strong wind against the ebb. Yachts approaching from Helgoland will normally start outside the northern lanes, and others to the south. The 'yacht' channel is easy to follow but is not wide near the entrance and the shallows fairly steep-to and changing. You may find small ships and ferries going either way in this channel. You will probably see the occasional yacht motoring against the current, but this can be tedious. I have entered the river with a westerly F6 behind and with the tide and it was really nothing special.

I like Cuxhaven and have spent many days there but if you are at the Elbe at the right time you might prefer to go on to Brunsbuttel. I believe there is a new marina there, but in the past we have actually stopped at Cuxhaven and gone from there to Rendsberg for an easy day trip the following day, in order to avoid stopping in Brunsbuttel.
 
JohnAlison (or other expert):

I was just having the life scared out of me by Reeds Almanac on the East Frisian islands. Sure I shouldn't. p695 [ https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=B9ExDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA695#v=onepage&q&f=false ] informs me:
The gaps between the islands are called Seegats... all of them are dangerous on the ebb, even in a moderate onshore wind, or in winds >F4 with any N in them... Persistent strong W/NW winds may raise the sea level by [0.75 - 3m]; against the ebb they cause steep dangerous seas over the bars near the entrance to the seegats. Strong E/SE winds can lower sea levels...
​

I am also confused by:
The general strategy, whether E- or W-bound, is to leave as early as possible on the flood (dependent on distance) so as to reach your destination... near HW.​

Firstly, I'd have expected to take the tide the way I was going, whereas this advises me to ride the flood whichever way I'm heading even if I'm getting knocked by what looks like over a knot at Springs. Secondly, what if I want to hop past a few islands, say 100nm or so - that's going to take me at least a whole tidal cycle so I can't avoid the ebbs. And thirdly, the HW that the 'flood' refers to - that would be the local tidal heights, approximately the Helgoland standard port?
 
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The Dutch Frisians, such as Vlieland are very pleasant but the German ones are well worth visiting. The watts behind them are mostly tricky, and as the article says, mainly for shallow draft. Norderney-Borkum or Delfzjl is OK up to about 1.8m. I have done is a number of times with 1.5ish, though it is easier going west.

I have been into Norderney with F6 behind, but without any N, and that was straightforward in the Dovetief. Entry to the islands is not particularly hard, and can usually be timed for arrival around HW, though the range is only about 2.5m. German buoyage, like the Dutch is always excellent, and can be relied on more than the charts. They make a lot of use of division-buoys instead of cardinals. Personally, I like this and wish we did the same sometimes.
 
Hi everyone.

I just want to say thanks to all of you. I now got my boat in sweden.
The trip went just fine.
We left Bursledon 28th of may and went 29 hours strait to Ramsgate.
Spent the night there and headed out for about 30 hours to Den Helder. Lots of fog and mist but with well functioning radar and AIS it all felt god.
Dropped of some crew and spent some days there,
Next stop was Helgoland before Brunsbuttel and the Kiel kanal.
In the Kiel Kanal the beautiful weather we have had in Scandinavia showed up and from then not a single drop of rain.
Spent one night in Giselau then out from Keil Kanal to Laboe.
From there to Glowe on the island Rugen i Germany and spent some says there.
Further on to Bornholm, Öland, Västervik and eventually home in the archipelago of Loftahammar.
19 days whitout any problems. Could not be more satisfied with the trip.

Many thanks
 
rodper said:
Hi everyone.

I just want to say thanks to all of you. I now got my boat in sweden.
The trip went just fine.
We left Bursledon 28th of may and went 29 hours strait to Ramsgate.
Spent the night there and headed out for about 30 hours to Den Helder. Lots of fog and mist but with well functioning radar and AIS it all felt god.
Dropped of some crew and spent some days there,
Next stop was Helgoland before Brunsbuttel and the Kiel kanal.
In the Kiel Kanal the beautiful weather we have had in Scandinavia showed up and from then not a single drop of rain.
Spent one night in Giselau then out from Keil Kanal to Laboe.
From there to Glowe on the island Rugen i Germany and spent some says there.
Further on to Bornholm, Öland, Västervik and eventually home in the archipelago of Loftahammar.
19 days whitout any problems. Could not be more satisfied with the trip.

Many thanks
Click to expand...

Great to hear.
 
I am interested in this thread as we are planing to go to the Baltic this year. However, I don't have any charts or pilot books that cover East of Dover so passage planning is difficult. What pilot books are recommended to get me from the Hamble through the Kiel Canal? I draw about 2.3m and I may be single handed so I don't want to do really long legs of I can help it. if I can find some crew then obviously it will be easier.
 
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