The RYA, yes, no, maybe, but - their recent comments on Pyrotechnics

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All mine are now out of date so I will get rid of them as hoping to go to CI and France this year. I will keep a few orange smoke flares on board with a couple of pinpoint flares for night otherwise it is the VHF and or mobile phone. I would buy a complete set but the disposal is becoming more and more difficult.
 
Boathook said:
All mine are now out of date so I will get rid of them as hoping to go to CI and France this year. I will keep a few orange smoke flares on board with a couple of pinpoint flares for night otherwise it is the VHF and or mobile phone. I would buy a complete set but the disposal is becoming more and more difficult.
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I've never had an issue with disposal:

Hello Shopkeeper, I wish to buy some pyrotechnics will you take back my out of date ones?

If response = "yes", then buy pyrotechnics, else leave shop.
 
The MCA haven't changed their opinion yet, I must admit I do wonder a bit at the RYA taking this step without endless consultation and committees and input from all parties. Not like them.
 
Sandy said:
Having just read the RYA's page on pyrotechnics

Pyrotechnic Flares – past their sell-by date? | Inbrief | e-newsletters | News & Events | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

Left me scratching my head about what they are saying. Sounds like they are saying, "We think, but are not quite sure that you don't need to carry pyrotechnics."

Thankfully we still have a choice. Personally, I will continue to carry them as I've seen them work in pinpointing a casualty.
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Actually, on the contrary the RYA seem to be very brave and making a surprisingly definitive / black and white statement - "In the RYA’s view, the practical drawbacks of pyrotechnic flares and their limited effectiveness in distress alerting, combined with the availability of alternative electronic distress alerting and location indicating technology, mean that pyrotechnic flares are now obsolescent. "

Particularly as I can almost hear the traditionalists gearing up to object loudly to the RYA for publishing such a "view" (not a directive, just a view).

Coincidentally this winter I decided not to replace my out of date set of flares with more pyrotechnics, but with an electronic flare instead. I still have various pyrotechnics on board in the other flare pack, and in the liferaft, so not an absolute switch over (yet). But since first buying flares I have now added two separate PLB's, DSC as well as hand held VHF, two MOB1 AIS devices in the lifejackets etc. So for me this is a direction of travel gradually away from pyrotechnics on our boat.

The safety risks associated with carrying and particularly using pyrotechnics (even RNLI having serious accidents) is a material factor in my assesment
 
dunedin said:
Actually, on the contrary the RYA seem to be very brave and making a surprisingly definitive / black and white statement - "In the RYA’s view, the practical drawbacks of pyrotechnic flares and their limited effectiveness in distress alerting, combined with the availability of alternative electronic distress alerting and location indicating technology, mean that pyrotechnic flares are now obsolescent. "
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And then it rambles on about pyrotechnic care! Hence the title of this post, "Yes, no, maybe, but"

I agree it is an opinion, but there is no requirement for any pleasure vessel under 13.7 meters to carry any pyrotechnics.
 
Obsolescent, not obsolete!

Whether you feel the need to carry flares, or require that people taking part in your races to, will vary from case to case.

I think flares are increasingly a last resort, with ever more options to exhaust first.
More boats have EPIRBs and AIS. VHF and mobile phone coverage has improved. And so on.

I don't think it's yet time to say nobody needs pyrotechnics, but I think it's fair to say less boats should be required to carry them, and more people can reasonably judge they are not worthwhile for them, where they sail their boat.
 
dunedin said:
Actually, on the contrary the RYA seem to be very brave and making a surprisingly definitive / black and white statement - "In the RYA’s view, the practical drawbacks of pyrotechnic flares and their limited effectiveness in distress alerting, combined with the availability of alternative electronic distress alerting and location indicating technology, mean that pyrotechnic flares are now obsolescent. "
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"Obsolescent" means "becoming obsolete, but not yet obsolete". Careful phrasing or sloppy writing?
 
I carry hand-held reds and a smoke, which could be useful in pin-pointing a position, but especially useful in that they would be recognised by the general public as indicating distress.

I don't carry rockets. Anything they can do would be done better by VHF, PLB, EPIRB; they are dangerous and have killed.
 
blackbeard said:
I carry hand-held reds and a smoke, which could be useful in pin-pointing a position, but especially useful in that they would be recognised by the general public as indicating distress.

I don't carry rockets. Anything they can do would be done better by VHF, PLB, EPIRB; they are dangerous and have killed.
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Have in date ones ever killed anyone and if so why are they still for sale? Just askin?
 
I have in and out of date Pyros ... I have VHF .. DSC ... Hand Helds ...

But I still have faith that on that dark and awful night when they are trying to pinpoint my position .. I've made my VHF distress call - they are out there trying to find me - I can flre of a flare ..

I am yet to be convinced that they are not a life saver.
 
Let me give an example of Pyros vs VHF ...

Seismic cable work .... VHF calls out regularly ... Securite - Securite - Securite : This is Seismic Vessel position xxxx xxxx towing cable 3 miles long ... etc etc ...

I lost count of how many white Very flares were fired on just one shoot let alone the many I worked on .... because vessels were still going to cross the cable ...
I agree the calls were not Mayday ... but they were Securite messages which means safety messages ...
 
Andy Todd said:
I attended a seminar on the subject at CA House. Very logical and compelling. My takeaway was that not only are they obsolete, they increase risk.
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capnsensible said:
May I ask if anyone from the Rescue Services was at the lecture?
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Having been a member of the Rescue Services, OK Mountain Rescue, pyrotechnics are bloody brilliant on getting us to you in that last mile.

An interesting example

 
Elessar said:
Yes. Not a malfunction, idiocy so date irrelevant. I saw it.
Cars kill people and they are still for sale btw.
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What am I missing here?

Its a puzzle. Your first sentence as you say is irelevant.

Your second sentence is about cars. mm. Arent cars that are dangerous withdrawn from use??
 
Thanks, Sandy. I thought Id seen on here rescue service people commenting on how useful they are. Thats why I wondered if anyone representing them had been at the CA lecture.
 
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