The right to moor

[chuns]

I don’t know if you are following the campaign in Sailing Today, but for those that are not an eminent QC is challenging the right of authority, larely in the form of the Crown Estate, to levy charges.

I wonder if there is a chance that the recreational boating press could forget their competitive differences and join together to campaign on this issue? I don’t suppose there is the remotest chance that the RYA would see this as an issue to champion, after all it affects ordinary boaters.

If you agrre, what about a letter/email campaign to the various editors suggesting a united front?

 

[Twister_Ken]

Ok, Chuns, I'll do my letter writing.

BTW - why are QCs always eminent?

 

[milltech]

Re: The right to anchor

I think the campaign is specifically the right to anchor free, (mooring's a bit generic), and I believe it's a campaign to support, and dare I say, a campaign that should get support from IPC mags too, success being of benefit to all.

There ought to be a few things we can do in life without getting our hands in our pockets, and dropping the hook is traditionally one of them.

John

 

[Celena]

Don't you think an ST staff member ought to have a go at refusing to pay? (It would make good copy as well!)

 

[graham]

If anchored in a harbour and using the harbours facilities such as the slipway to land your dinghy ,water taps ,toilets etc then I cant see any reason not to pay a small harbour charge.

On the other hand if anchored in a river,cove or some other natural anchorage and not using any facilities I would strongly object and refuse if possible.

Fortunately this problem doesnt occur much in the Bristol Channel where we normally sail.

 

[sailbadthesinner]

I think it is from some long lost derivation of exorbitant

...It was like that when i found it!

 

[milltech]

Of course there has to be a dividing line, I don't think the slipway is it, after all if there was no slipway you could pull in just the same and tie up to a tree. Likewise the toilets are not it, anyone can roll into town by bus or car or foot and use those facilities and they can be charged as a separate issue (Dartmouth).

Actually I'm not sure what Harbour Facilities are, I suppose cranes and such. I think you might be right about the water too, but the idea of coming into shelter and dropping your hook is like a roadside lay-by and I think it is a traditional free right to be preserved.

John

 

[Rabbie]

I've said this here before - many times. You drop your anchor for a night stopover. Along comes matey with bag and book of tickets. You tell him where to shove them(politely of course!). Whats he going to do?. Arrest you?. Impound your boat?. Call the Constabulary?. Call the Royal Navy?. Does anyone have a definitive answer?. I tell them to go away and bother someone else. Apart from a bit of threat, I've never heard any more. I suggest we all stick together on this - don't chicken out and cough up!. As we say in Glasgow -'Where are you going to get ten men in a hurry?'.

 

[oldharry]

There was a sad cautionary tale on this forum a while ago from a bloke who had anchored up at Keyhaven. He refused to pay for the priviledge - having never been asked before. He returned from a run ashore to find the Harbour man had returned and impounded his dinghy against payment of dues.

I am no expert, but I doubt very much if that was legal - perhaps you legal types can clarify?

Arriving at Castle Cove in Portland after an extended single hand passage across Lyme Bay a while ago, a launch chuffered up and demanded £5 for the priviledge of anchoring. As my hook hadn't even reached the seabed, and being a bit short of sleep my reply was rather more - er, terse - than usual. 2 short words.

A quiet night and on my way undisturbed by further demands. But who was he? I never did find out, and have never seen him since.

Quick money for some enterprising fisherman....?

 

[Guest]

I recall standing in the public bar of Burner's pub, Salcombe, many moons ago when an irate motor cruising skipper was shouting about having to pay harbour dues. When he got to the bit about what was it for the asst. harbourmaster pointed out that the the harbour was re-surfaced twice a day at great expense. That made him think!

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by cornishman938 on 17/08/2002 11:12 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[jamesjermain]

Broadly speaking I agree with the views of this thread in so far as they relate to anchoring but a charge is reasonable if you pick up a mooring.

Having said that, where a harbour provides facilities specifically for yachtsmen, and this includes navigation aids, maintenance of channels, landing slips or steps, showers, toilets, an information service and so on they are only going to be able to do so if they have some sort of income. Should that come from the yachtsmen, a levy on local businesses who benefit from our custom or out of the public purse? And if the latter, why should yachtsmen benefit at the expense of hospitals, schools, roads etc.

Another point is that yachtsmen currently do not pay Light Dues. One of the arguments for maintaining this situation is that we mainly use smaller, inshore buoys and lights which are provided by local port authorities and which we pay for out of harbour dues. If we start refusing to pay these, we are on shakey ground over Light Dues.

One final point and that is that Newtown River in the Solent is often quoted as a place with no facilities where you have to pay to drop a hook. The river is maintained by the National Trust and I, personally have no problem with supporting them. As it happens, though, as a member I can anchor free.

JJ

 

[jamesjermain]

PS...

This is a personal view and not necessarily that of YM

JJ

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Is the river maintained for yachtsmen or by the national trust for environmental / aesthetic reasons.
If it is the latter why should the yachtsmen pay?
I broadly agree with your points, I am wary of a creep of charges. I feel we do get ripped off in this country on many things and charging for dropping a hook when we bring is money to an area seems wrong to me.

...It was like that when i found it!

 

[Chris_Robb]

Recently I anchored in Salcome - charge £10 for anchoring - I did not pay - but I would have been prepared to pay a smaller charge for harbour dues to cover the lights and bouys.

The real rip off though is if you use the water ferry, - this could costs a lt of money if you have a family on board! you would find MDL cheaper!

Salcombe is a really good example of a rip off - there are no other services. No showers - nothing (the sailing club is nothing to do with the harbour authorites - but should perhaps get a share of the proceeds as they need to spend some money on better facilites.)

 

[AndrewB]

Re: PS...

Don't worry James, we won't hold it against you.

I'm surprised that YM can be said to have a 'view'. Sounds like the civil service, or a public body. That editress of yours cracking the whip, then?

 

[jamesjermain]

It does it for both. As the harbour authority is has a duty to maintain navigation but clearly its principle purpose is to preserve the area as a wildlife and plant haven

JJ

 

[VMALLOWS]

Newtown Creek:

James, Have things changed at Newtown? The last time I enquired (of the Hbr Master) there was a reduction of £1 for NT members at anchoor overnight (though no reduction on the visitor buoys). I did hear that 'short-stay' was free to members, but my interest is in overnight.

Strangely, I have enquired about Newtown at several NT 'centres' and all denied all knowlege of the Hbr (only the Old Town Hall).......doesn't feature in the handbook either.

 

[charles_reed]

Newtown.
Anchor.
When questioned present membership card.
Ask for his written authority.
As it's non-existent send him packing with a flea in his ear and write to the NT complaining.
If on a mooring ask him to prove NT ownership of the mooring and his authority, in writing, to collect dues.
If a non-member do similar.
Ought to discourage him sufficiently to ensure some equalisation of the authoritarian regime.

 

[oldharry]

Charles has a point here: asking for the 'written authority' to collect harbour dues seems to me a good way of sorting out the sheep from the goats. Assuming the guy in the dory CAN produce such an authority, we can further gum up the works by asking to see the authorised printed table of harbour dues so that we can check we are not being overcharged. Otherwise we only have his word for it that he isnt adding a couple of quid 'pier money'

Imagine if we all did THAT at Newton this weekend! It would be 2.00am before he got round everyone.

After all, if a stranger comes to my front door seeking to 'read the meters' must be able to prove who he is who he says he is - why not these odd bods wandering around in dories demanding money off us for anchoring?

It doesnt of course address the basic issue of the right to anchor.

I like the idea of Salcombe Harbour being 'resurfaced' twice a day..... whether or not the local HM wants it to.



<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by oldharry on 21/08/2002 09:00 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[jamesjermain]

You may be right, I haven't anchored there for about three, maybe four years now. But it certainly used to be free - we saved the cost of membership every year for years. More recently we tended to anchor off the entrance to avoid the crowds - ha! ha! - but now, of course, we have migrated permanently to the West Country.

JJ