The red diesel irony.

Elessar

Elessar

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 Jul 2003
Messages
10,235
Location
Antibes, South of France
Visit site
Whilst we were in the EU and they wanted us to scrap red diesel, the government used the very pragmatic 60:40 solution to saying “up yours”

Now it’s free to do what it wants......

(Source BBC news)

Meanwhile, the chancellor is expected to scrap a subsidy on diesel used by the farming and construction sector in an effort to encourage a switch to greener alternative fuel vehicles and help the UK meet its climate change targets.
Rishi Sunak is set to announce in next week's budget that red diesel - so-called because it is marked with a dye - will no longer attract a lower fuel duty. It currently accounts for about 15% of total diesel sales in the UK and costs the Treasury about £2.4bn a year in revenue.
 
What’s annoying is that there is no subsidy on red deisel. White diesel is DERV - diesel engined road vehicles and as such has a tax premium.
Anyway no point moaning about it, it’s inevitably a lost cause.
 
This will hit farmers very hard and increase construction costs. How will it affect people who use red diesel for home heating? It will also hit the already hard pressed motor boat owner and lose marinas and surrounding businesses visitor revenue. I've not seen an electric tractor or combine come to that!
 
Interesting but not a complete surprise.

For us, it will have an impact although we tend to try to fill up in the Channel Islands whenever possible (50% of our annual fuel bill probably). One wonders whether Guernsey and Jersey will become even more of a hot-spot for bunkering than they are now, given that they have the ability to set their own rules on this.

It's the farmers and fishermen that I feel for. They've got in hard enough as it is and an increase in fuel costs will be hard felt. This will also have a potentially significant impact on the recreational fishing sector - fishing charter boats will find it hard to justify £150 per place for a day's fishing (it is as much as £80-100 now for offshore wreck fishing which given the poor returns is an expensive day out).
 
Last edited:
PCUK said:
This will hit farmers very hard and increase construction costs. How will it affect people who use red diesel for home heating? It will also hit the already hard pressed motor boat owner and lose marinas and surrounding businesses visitor revenue. I've not seen an electric tractor or combine come to that!
Click to expand...
If already VAT registered no difference in o/all costs
 
Solent Sailor said:
Interesting but not a complete surprise.

For us, it will have an impact although we tend to try to fill up in the Channel Islands whenever possible (50% of our annual fuel bill probably). One wonders whether Guernsey and Jersey will become even more of a hot-spot for bunkering than they are now, given that they have the ability to set their own rules on this.

It's the farmers and fishermen that I feel for. They've got in hard enough as it is and an additional 40% in fuel costs will be hard felt. This will also have a potentially signifcant impact on the recreational fishing sector - fishing charter boats will find it hard to justify £150 per place for a day's fishing (it is as much as £80-100 now for offshore wreck fishing which given the poor returns is an expensive day out).
Click to expand...
The Continentals seem to still find the €s do recreational fishing
 
VAT is only a small element of tax on fuel. This concerns the excise duty, not the VAT element. Don't forget, the headline marina rate might be £1.20 or so for diesel, but that is on a 60/40 split and this will remove that too - so £1.50 p/l isn't out of the question.
 
Last edited:
Solent Sailor said:
For us, it will have an impact although we tend to try to fill up in the Channel Islands whenever possible (50% of our annual fuel bill probably). One wonders whether Guernsey and Jersey will become even more of a hot-spot for bunkering than they are now, given that they have the ability to set their own rules on this.
Click to expand...

I doubt it as the Government is proposing to remove the concession for recreational boats to use red diesel. The consultation on this ended last September and they're still analysing responses. So, you won't be filling up there once this is implemented. This might not stop you visiting the CIs, but it will stop me as I can't fill up in France. I have a dog on board and, if I visit France, I can't bring her back under the present Pet Passport scheme. This problem could now be solved by dropping the proposed ban (in defiance of the CJEU) on the basis that we'll be paying full duty anyway.
 
SimonD said:
I doubt it as the Government is proposing to remove the concession for recreational boats to use red diesel. The consultation on this ended last September and they're still analysing responses. So, you won't be filling up there once this is implemented. This might not stop you visiting the CIs, but it will stop me as I can't fill up in France. I have a dog on board and, if I visit France, I can't bring her back under the present Pet Passport scheme. This problem could now be solved by dropping the proposed ban (in defiance of the CJEU) on the basis that we'll be paying full duty anyway.
Click to expand...

Guernsey diesel is not necessarily red - the Rubis tankers fill you up with white diesel, you just pay a marine rate rather than a road rate (well, we've certainly had white diesel from them) - it is the same fuel so this concern does not apply.
 
I don't think the price rise will make a huge difference now. The "damage" was done when we lost the cheaper price of using 100% red i.e. pre the 60/40 days.

Back in the mid 2000's, with our 40ft flybridge we would not think twice about a 60 mile round trip to a nice marina or mooring. Cost circa £85 in fuel. Compare that with the same trip after we lost the battle to retain the reduced red diesel price. It immediately became a £300 trip. That had an effect!!! If that is then compared to the proposed road diesel prices then the same trip would be around £400. Not so much of difference, but possibly the last straw for many.

Most people just accepted it and got on with it, but I would suggest that the big difference was that motor boats got used more as caravans than for weekly blasts to a nice port or anchorage. A lot of the fun and social networks brought about by meeting people at different places has somewhat gone. Long weekend adventures to a relatively far, interesting and fun places has been swapped for a short day trip and then back to the marina. If the weather didn't look anything but perfect, then the value proposition of going somewhere just didn't stack up. It's a bit sad really as motor boating was brilliant fun back then.

FWIW my observations are just based on the sector of the market I know quite well, as that was where I operated. That is/was boats between 38ft to 50ft built around the early 2000's e.g Fairline, Princess, Sealine etc.....
 
I’m sorry I just don’t get the whole red diesel thing. Yes I boat in the south of France so pay €1.50+ a litre, but if I wanted to spend less on fuel I would buy a sail boat. If I want a motor boat then that is the opportunity cost. But, and it is a big but, the percentage of my annual boating spend on fuel versus everything else is not huge. I spend €2/3000 a year on fuel. My berth is €8000.

So I think the U.K. boater needs to get over it and realise it is going to happen at some stage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top