The problem with race courses...

Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Thanks for that.What about my point re ski racing?

Can you imagine the reaction if it were being thought of for the first time today? The 'elfansafetee' mob would have a field day.

Best lie low unless some outraged raggie dobs you lot in. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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I'm with you on this one, I think the responses have been a bit out of order, but could possibly been avoided had the OP not used the word "stupid"?

It seems to me to be an act of gross selfishness and inconsiderate behavior. The race is apparently an annual event, and from all accounts properly organised with the co-operation of the harbour authorities.

To ignore warnings and requests to decist in his behavior from the race marshalls beggars belief. It doesn't matter one jot what some of you think are or could be little hitlers etc, they were there to try and protect the participants in the race from just this sort of thing.

I wonder what the response would be if some power boats decided to carve up a raggie race in the Solent?? I am pretty sure that they would have been considered to be the spawn of satan.

A once a year event, so a little consideration and co-operation doesn't seem to me to be to much to ask for. To the OP, if you had posted this thread on the Mobo forum, I am quite certain that you would have got a quite different set of responses, or even on scuttlebut, but here in the lounge with quite a few of the resident lizards being fairly well lubricated at that time of night, was asking to get your arse bit! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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At last a semblance of sanity !!

With all due to respect to ColRegs and so on - I and I know many others who take attitude to NOT interfere with other waterborne activities where possible. If I or they witnessed a Water-Ski / powerboat race ... I / they would have tried to stay clear.
I would expect marshalls to act decisively and with harshness to communicate to the skipper that he is running into an area of risk - marshalls are there to try and stop accidents, to safeguard life and limb ... not to be 'nice and politely come alongside to speak' ....

Sorry I am of the opinion that Sail Skipper was being a bit of a berk ! and although photo's often make something look closer than reality - he was risking skiers lives.

If as OP says - plenty of other boats were around and keeping clear - why did the sailboat not do similar ? It must have been somewhat apparent that something was going on ??
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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He probably overtakes using the bus lanes as well. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Ah, but that's a much more legitimate tactic!

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BMW driver ??
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

The main navigable channel in Chi Harbour is only really used by leisure craft.
I've done a few races in there, including 'fed' week, when there are literally hundreds of dinghies sailing about 10 different courses, and i've found most of the non-racing trafic to be pretty considerate. In general, when faced with a whole fleet of dinghies, it's best from the dinghies' point of view if you hold a steady predictable course unless a collision is imminent. A sensible speed with low wash helps too.
It pays to suss out any marks that are being used and avoid them if you can because boats will get close together there, and chances are you'll be give way vessel to some of them!
If any of the people who have slowed down for dinghy racers around Portsmouth are reading this, thank you!
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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Looking at the chart of HISC race marks in the harbour, they currently straddle the main navigable channel:

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The race marks (most have been in place for longer than I can remember) are to the edges of the main channels - only once you get into the narrower channels do they appear in the middle (Star, Stanbury, Cobnor to name 3). Thorney buoy is probably the exception to this rule - as it appears to be in the main body of the harbour - but is actually to the west side of the main channel.
The aim is to keep turning marks away from thru traffic - as race congestion around a mark is bad enough - without having to contend with cruising boats as well.

The suggestion of stopping the racing marks straddling the channels is not going to help - the racers will use the tide to their best advantage - so even if they're not crossing the "channel" they'll be in the middle of a favourable current.

As a regular racer (for the last 25 years) in the harbour I can honestly say I've had very few "close encounters" and most contention comes up when against another racing fleet. Infact the worst "collisions" I've noticed are in the use of VHF where I've had to tell one club to SHUT UP AND LISTEN BEFORE TRANSMITTING as we were trying to locate a missing racer and they broadcast over the top of us - I had a word with their Fed Rep after that ... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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Thanks for that.What about my point re ski racing?

To be fair, I do think that anyone who wants to be pulled along at speeds of up to one hundred miles an hour whilst stood on a six foot plank must have the some sort of level of insanity but really no more than any other motor sport, However Organisation is the key to all sports to reduce the incidences of accidents.
I regularly watch sailing races and admire those who have skillfully navigated all corners of the earth in Yachts in all conditions, but I must say that they are taking often huge risks too but as on this occasion the warnings were clearly given to the vessel and He chose to ignore them putting lives in clear danger , something that ordinarily most motorboat/sailboat skippers would NEVER do !!!
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Returning to the photo, if the racers are really doing 70, how close they get to somebody doing 6knots is pretty much their choice.
We have powerboat races around here occassionally sometimes they get pretty close to other vessels, but they are going so much faster than you, all you can do is hold your course and take photo's as they howl past you. I think for the ZAPCATs they actually used to close off any area by order of QHM, as they did for some of the round the world race starts.
Does anyone have the authority to close off bits of Torbay?
If so how is that communicated?
I get Portsmouth LNTM's emailed to me, don't know how I'm supposed to receive them from anywhere else. Perhaps there should be a website that covers such (major) things for the whole coast?
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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I would say the reason you get "buzzed" is because you're not looking far enough around you for the progress of the racers -

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No, no, no, no, no. These dinghys are like exocets. They lock onto you. No matter how much you change course, you've got no chance. There's nothing you can do. Doesn't matter if they're racing or not. They're locked on and you're in their sights, and they're going to have you. I just stop these days, hold my hands up, wait for the near collision, and take the abuse that's hurled at me. That's how it is.

Don't believe me? Come out one day with me and I'll show you.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Ah - you're obviously not going fast enough - I'll take you out one day and show you how to avoid them ...


Hang on - I've got an idea .... put an anchor ball up, drop a bit of chain over the front and reverse everywhere - then you're not underway, just dragging your anchor!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Interesting post.

Asside from the inflamitory language, you have a vaild point. I doubt very many skippers of any craft would willingly sail into an area with a lot of powerboats wizzing about at high speeds.

I do a LOT of sailing racing, and the difference is that we never expect to be the only craft on our race area, and move much slower.
Yes, a large MOBO passing through our race area is annoying, especially in light winds when it can change the results of a race, but the big difference is the safety aspect. A boat of any type straying onto a sailing course is very unlikely to be put at risk by the competitors, as speeds are low.

In contrast, in cases between fast MOBOs and sailing boats the slow moving sailing boat has relatively little oppertunity to avoid a collision if the MOBO gets it wrong.

It seems like the organisers of this power racing event had therefore taken sensible precautions in organising marshals to warn approaching craft.

But is this legally enforcable, or just an advisory?
If it's not legally enforcable, then the skipper, however selfishly, has the "right" to sail through the course.

What then of the organiser's (and competitor's) descision to continue racing with an interloper on the course?
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

WaterskiRacingBrixham146.jpg
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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Ah - you're obviously not going fast enough - I'll take you out one day and show you how to avoid them ...

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Okay. But my point is, I want them to avoid me. Come out with me one day, and I'll show you what I mean.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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WaterskiRacingBrixham146.jpg


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They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but I'm not sure what you're inferring with this one?
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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But my point is, I want them to avoid me.

[/ QUOTE ] Ah - but they want you to avoid them ...

I don't know if you can/have or do sail - but there are two definate types of sailing - the cruiser sailor (in dinghies as well as big boats) that point the boat in the general direction they want to travel in, roughly set the sail and off they go - won't change course unless they have to ... and the racing sailor - who will actively trim the sail, upwind the helm will be sailing to the jib telltails and down wind often the crew will be calling the course dependant on the pressure on the spinnaker sheets. There are loads inbetween of course!

I would think it is the racer sailor that "gets" you ... as they will be constantly changing their direction - and then they will tack or gybe for no apparent reason - these reasons are usually either subtle windshifts or tactical. Some might come "at you" when they are in close proximity of a competitor so they can use you to force the competitor to make a move they don't want to do (I do this with moored/anchored boats). Yes - they can be tricky to miss - which is why you need to spot them early on and get an idea of what they're up to and where they're going.

When we're coming down to the main body of the harbour I'm looking 1/2 to 1Nm ahead to see what is going on and who I think will be an issue ...

I'll come out and show you the basics of what to look for ..... Perhaps I'll have to start a new business instructing Mobos how to avoid dinghy fleets .... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Without seeing the race course and track of the yacht IMO makes hard to judge the actions of the yacht - if you've created a 1 hour detour, then WTF do you expect?

Whilst I too would try and avoid a race course (Mobo or raggie) I do have limits and am well aware that nowadays some folk seem to think that their problem should somehow be mine. And of course not forgeting tat some folk react to bullying. and not by rolling over.

In any event I would have thought the Speed Boat in this case should have slowed down when passing the yacht to minmise his wake. Otherwise it's just impolite /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Okay. Confession time! Apart from the mobo, I have a Laser. I rarely use it in the harbour - mostly at sea, where it gets more "interesting".

But when in the harbour, jungle rules apply. If it's bigger / faster than me, regardless of it being power or sail, I get out of its way. That rule has always worked well for me!
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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But when in the harbour, jungle rules apply. If it's bigger / faster than me, regardless of it being power or sail, I get out of its way. That rule has always worked well for me!

[/ QUOTE ] Probably because you're not racing - fair enough, but technically you don't always have too ... you fall firmly into the cruiser sailor category ... nothing wrong with that btw ... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

"Very important is the avoidance of collisions, regardless of right of way"
I so wish this was applied by everybody who takes to the water in all vessels.
And "stupid until proven otherwise".....I honestly think it's more like ignorant, pompous, arrogant and selfish until proven otherwise.
The comment I did like from a fellow sailor last year was "but he's a Doctor you know".....and just how does that make them a better sailor?
This particular incident was after they had to by rescued by the RNLI.
I was also out and had one of my most enjoyable days sailing.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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He probably overtakes using the bus lanes as well. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Ah, but that's a much more legitimate tactic!

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BMW driver ??

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Company CEO ?
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but I'm not sure what you're inferring with this one?

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Whilst every racer WILL be aware of the caution in play there is no guarantee that the Yachtsman will be aware of the flags status or meaning .
Equally so the racers themselves may have no idea as to the incident that incurres the caution ,ie, fallen skier , broken down boat etc etc but they will abide by that caution whatever it's reason.

The Yacht could well have been unknowingly mowing down a fallen skier !!!!!
 
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