The problem with race courses...

Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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Might be an area of special interest then English Heritage might have something to say about the buoy moorings.....

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The poor Sea Horses. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif <span style="color:white">xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx </span> /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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OK, worst case scenario - collision at sea during a race between two boats - a competitor and a non-competitor. Accident results in fatalities. MAIB gets involved and finds competitor did not comply with colregs. Who is the guilty party? (I know MAIB does not like to apportion 'blame' but it does publish findings and likely cause of accident).

Family of deceased then takes case to court. Who 'wins'?



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If the race is one that has been organised officially I would expect that a Notice to Mariners is published. This is what we do down here.

Regardless of whether one has been issued or not, COLREGS take precedence over any Sailing Instructions (or, in this case, the Racing Instructions). Racing does not exonerate a competing boat from observation of COLREGS. Very important is the avoidance of collisions, regardless of right of way.

In a collision between two boats that are moving (i.e. where neither one of them is moored or anchored) each boat shoulders a portion of the blame.

However, if a NtoM has been issued, then the portion of blame that is shouldered by the non-competing boat becomes considerably bigger unless she can prove mitigating circumstances. This would, however, barely reduce the racer's culpability in avoiding the collision that you describe..
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

How do you ski race anyway /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Your tied to a friggin boat so its a boat race with someone tied to the back off it .
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

So, you're in agreement then.

A speedboat towing a waterskier is still considerably more manouverable than a sailboat so the basics of power gives way to sail still prevails.

After further thought I think the OP was just out for a late-night troll.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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How do you ski race anyway /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Your tied to a friggin boat so its a boat race with someone tied to the back off it .

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Maybe you could have some type of tactics - maybe ramming each other off the skis (Think rollerball)

Or maybe big bungee tow ropes - you'd need some way of only making it bungee when you need the extra surge of power but thestrategy could then be when you launched your self past the tow boat for that last run at the line.

Hm - maybe i've just invented a new sport. - Just need blonde women in bikinis who were dating footballers to do it and i could sell it to sky
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Not Out for a late night troll at all !!!!!

Look , This was a annual event of the National Water Ski Racing Championships and not some tin pot bunch of club petrol heads, ALL authorities are fully breifed and the course laid out in accordance to the Torbay Harbour Authority directions so ALL the T's are crossed and I's dotted !!!!!
This was 1 Yacht that in my opinion was ,Yes ,Stupid because there were possibly hundreds of vessels in all shapes and sizes in the bay this afternoon and they managed to take notice of the goings on in the bay without hindrence . This skipper IGNORED ALL ATTEMPTS to advise him of a suitable course to avoid the danger area .. BY RADIO AND MARSHALL INTERCEPTION.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Let's just suppose for a moment that the sailing boat was a large tree trunk with nobody "in command". Would you hold the tree trunk responsible if one of the racers failed to avoid it?
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Having just done my day skipper I thought that there is no right of way and neither does power give way to sail. The COL Regs state that it is up to all parties to keep watch and take certain action to avoid a collision by following certain rules depending on tack, position, speed etc and obviously taking into account that a large vessel can not stop or manouevre as easily as smaller vessel. Surely we need a statement from the skipper of the boat concerned as to why he took the route he did before making any assumptions/statements? Does anyone have his side of the story?
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I notice you didn't reply to any of my questions I posted to you at 23:11 hrs.

The sailing yacht skipper held his course and was in no way obliged to alter course for motorboats. You just can't make someone move out of the way at your bidding.

It is just like you trying to stop traffic on a busy main road, only the police have that authority, you are not allowed to do it. Similarly, at sea, only someone in authority can make rules and it certainly does not fall within your remit.

I am sure he probably has many years of experience sailing these waters and knows the Rules of the Road possibly better than you do?.

Now perhaps you will please answer those three questions I posted earlier and just in case you cannot find them, I have copied them below:? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

1) Perhaps you would like to explain what the "rules of the road" are in this sort of situation.

2) Can you please tell me who has "right of way"?

3) Was a "Notice to Mariners" posted for the region? Was the event mentioned by the Coastguards on Channel 16 for that day?
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Same thing happened to me when I was delivering a 28-footer out of Chi last year in a light breeze.

At about the 'throat' of the estuary about ½-mile inside Chichester Bar, were a swarm of racing Optimists, about 60 of them, crossing and re-crossing the entrance to Chichester Harbour, east to west and back again!

It was very difficult finding a way through this fleet. They could have chosen a better place to set out the course instead of making it right across the middle of the main channel! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

READ MAIL 00.17 !!!!!!!

However I have not investigated the first question as I was there merely as an Observer but I was also monitoring radio traffic at the time.
I cannot see why you have such a bee in your bonnet with regards coming to the defence of the raggie . This is a rare incident thankfully and MOST mariners be them raggies or mobos are in possetion of a reasonable level of common sense. This one was not one of them !!!

OR WAS IT YOU ???????????
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I re-read your message of 00:17 and none of the specific questions I asked have been answered.

The skipper of the yacht might not have been monitoring the radio especially if he was just out for a days sail, her also might have been a foreigner? If you know anything about DSC, you will know that the radio is often turned off.

I hold Royal Naval qualifications for both power boats and sailing yacht and my certificate states, "local, coastal and off-shore" and no, it wasn't me sailing that yacht.

I am not in anyway "coming to the defence of the sailing yacht" but I was more standing up to the arrogance in the tone and manner in which you posted and have been re-posting about this small incident.

I have noted others on this forum have taken a similar line as me about your attitude. You need to calm down a bit and realise that you don't just come onto a forum and start shouting the odds just because you don't like something.

You obviously cannot answer my earlier questions because you clearly don't really know what you are talking about which is rather sad. I have very many friends who own and race power boats and I know there are good and bad in both camps, in both motor boating and sailing.

May I suggest you obtain 'all' the facts before you condemn someone's sailing abilities or possibly obtain a few and get yourself more qualified. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

And finally on this topic, any more derisory comments from you, and you will go on my ignore list unless you want to start being more civil. If you want to discuss this over a jar, I would be more than willing to meet up when I am in your area. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

What a disappointing set of responses.

Regardless of 'rights', I would have thought it simple good manners and courtesy to avoid sailing through any kind of race. If there was some reason why he had no choice, he could have explained and apologized by VHF. Not keeping a radio watch if you can is BTW a breach of ‘the rules’.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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You obviously cannot answer my earlier questions because you clearly don't really know what you are talking about which is rather sad. ......Can you please tell me who has "right of way"?

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It is not possible to answer this question (so in this case I suggest you don't know what you are talking about /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. ) Colregs makes no reference anywhere to "right of way" but does refer to give-way and stand-on
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I'm with you on this one, I think the responses have been a bit out of order, but could possibly been avoided had the OP not used the word "stupid"?

It seems to me to be an act of gross selfishness and inconsiderate behavior. The race is apparently an annual event, and from all accounts properly organised with the co-operation of the harbour authorities.

To ignore warnings and requests to decist in his behavior from the race marshalls beggars belief. It doesn't matter one jot what some of you think are or could be little hitlers etc, they were there to try and protect the participants in the race from just this sort of thing.

I wonder what the response would be if some power boats decided to carve up a raggie race in the Solent?? I am pretty sure that they would have been considered to be the spawn of satan.

A once a year event, so a little consideration and co-operation doesn't seem to me to be to much to ask for. To the OP, if you had posted this thread on the Mobo forum, I am quite certain that you would have got a quite different set of responses, or even on scuttlebut, but here in the lounge with quite a few of the resident lizards being fairly well lubricated at that time of night, was asking to get your arse bit! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Well I think most of the posters on both sides of this arguement are showing the lack of toleration that has come to represent Britain in the new millennium.

Normal common sense and courtesy should have suggested to the sailor that he'd be better off on another course, being bull headed about "rights" in every circumstance is not helpful.

On the other hand if the power boats really were travelling at 70 mph......

Peace Light and Love to you all.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I'm a raggie. If it was as straightforward as ignoring an obviously laid out course and warnings when there was an acceptable alternative course , then at the minimum it would have been inconsiderate and selfish. However, that's par for the course in modern Britain . Most winter weekends I race and whilst ever the weather is reasonable you can guarantee that at least one powerboat ploughs through the fleet rather than round it.

Doesnt excuse tha above raggie - the point is that its bad upbringing and poor consideration for others whatever the propulsion system used.

That said it does seem to be a bit more prevalent in mobos - maybe down to the proportion of agressive 30/40 year old self made men driving the things.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I'm astounded at some of the replies you have on here.

Given that ski-racing is a legitimate powerboat sport (an old friend of mine used to do this at over 90 kts with his Dad at the helm - Ron Scott Marine, running "Scott Free") why the references to "tin-pot teenagers" and other references inferring, without any real knowledge, that the race was badly organised?

There are loads of dinghy and yacht races on the Llyn Peninsular and, as powerboaters, we either stay clear (coz its bleedin' obvious what's going on, whether or not you've been told) or we have already arranged to help out in some form.

MYC doesn't issue "notices to mariners" about our *yachting* regatta and similarly SCYC at Abersoch doesn't when 100 RS400's go tearing off round the cans for a day's event (which by the way is a good watch!)

We do not, under any circumstances, cut through an event and then make spurious claims that we had some right of way, or that the event, in some way, "curtailed our freedoms".


Back to sailing school for all you that criticised.
 
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