The problem with race courses...

Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Agreed - consideration is a good substitute for the rule book. Also, and unfortunately due to experiences, I would also agree that there seem to be a higher proportion of powerboat users that need some form of training. "Well, if its got a steering wheel, it must be like a car" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I too am a bit surprised by some of the responses here.

It's nothing to do with colregs: the point is that sailing vessel should have listened to the marshals / Notice to Mariners and not got himself into a situation where colregs were needed. Usually there is a clause in the NTM something along the lines of "vessels must follow the advice of the marshals".
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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I wonder what the response would be if some power boats decided to carve up a raggie race in the Solent?? I am pretty sure that they would have been considered to be the spawn of satan.



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Dont know about the Solent but where I sail that is a common event. And it's not unknown for other sail boats to carve up the racing fleet.

But then the racers are a bit pushy and aggressive too.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I know mate, I was just putting the boot on the other foot. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

IMHO - the yachtie was a bit of a pillock - unless he had legitimate reason for not altering course around the race area.
However, also IMHO it is a darn sight easier to spot a dinghy race course than a mobo race course - purely due to concentration of boats and generally smaller water area used.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Indeed, but he was asked to decist by the race marshalls........
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Thank heavens some people with a bit of common sense have joined in this thread towards the end.
Whatever "the rights" of the sailboat he was a twat to knowingly endanger and inconvenience a properly organised event just to exercise his (dubious) right to proceed. Dubious because he was, in the final consideration, as responsible as any other party to ensure there was no likelihood of a collision.

It's not a matter of "little hitlers" (on either side) but of plain common sense and decency.

He probably overtakes using the bus lanes as well. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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He probably overtakes using the bus lanes as well. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Ah, but that's a much more legitimate tactic!
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Under rule two we're told "Nothing in these rules shall exonerate any vessel [..] from [...] any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case". In general I'd take that as meaning "don't use the steering and sailing rules (and especially rule 18) to justify ploughing through a raggie race, water-ski event or whatever else".

Context is everything though.

For example, earlier in this thread there's a report of "racing Optimists, about 60 of them, crossing and re-crossing the entrance to Chichester Harbour"... which sounds nuts... and if it's done week-in, week out might well tempt even the most reasonable skipper to plough straight through the middle.

Same with the water-skiers. This was apparently an annual event for the National Water Ski Racing Championships, but those of us who don't know the area intimately have no idea what happened every other weekend - if local and visiting waterskiers are notorious, within the area, for turning up weekend after weekend and acting as if they owned the place then a "bugger them" mentality would become more understandable.

Due consideration should cut both ways: those who routinely race (dingies, yachts, whatever) in busy waters should surely just be prepared to sacrifice an optimal racing line (and time) to minimise the impact on others.

ps. we presumably don't even know if the offending skipper HAD a working VHF unit on board: seems probable... but no more than that.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I would say that a "bugger them" attitude is totally unacceptable. Also potentially downright dangerous.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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It's nothing to do with colregs: the point is that sailing vessel should have listened to the marshals / Notice to Mariners and not got himself into a situation where colregs were needed. Usually there is a clause in the NTM something along the lines of "vessels must follow the advice of the marshals".



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You seem to be assuming that a NTM was, in fact, issued. Was it?
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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Same thing happened to me when I was delivering a 28-footer out of Chi last year in a light breeze.

At about the 'throat' of the estuary about ½-mile inside Chichester Bar, were a swarm of racing Optimists, about 60 of them, crossing and re-crossing the entrance to Chichester Harbour, east to west and back again!

It was very difficult finding a way through this fleet. They could have chosen a better place to set out the course instead of making it right across the middle of the main channel! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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That is a regular occurrance in ALL parts of Chi Harbour. I (and many others) have often found myself in the middle of such a dinghy race, and try as I might to give them room, several come into close conflict - I swear some of them do it deliberately. Often words are said, followed by a good, old fashioned row with the officials in the accompanying RIB.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I know exactly what you're saying. Totally unbelievable at times.

Why, why, why, don't they get out of the harbour entrance and go out to sea a bit? Then they've got zillions of square miles to clown around in, and no hassle to any one. It's just common sense isn't it?

Another interesting point - I bumped into an old Chi motor boat pal recently, who's gone over to the dark side. He was saying that since he's had the rag boat, he's not been hassled once by dinghy sailors in the harbour. Which only really confirms something I've known for years.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

The reason optimist races are held inside the harbour is because optimists are sailed by young children and are too damn slow to not just get swept away with the tide.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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Quite simply !!!
As I have already stated the course was clearly marked out and ALL attempts by race Marshall vessels to warn the skipper were ignored, There were a dozen or so boats with Skiers on that course racing at up to 80 miles an hour and the course itself had a designated line of voyage marked out for all other vessels to avoid that danger area. !!!!

THE REMARK 'STUPID' STANDS !!!!

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You know what it comes down to. Some people are just c***s, and do things like that. You just have to learn to live with it. They may have sailing boats, or power boats, ships or dinghies. They may even not have a boat at all and behave just the same way on the road.

I presume you're a bit older than me, so I reckon you should have seen more of this sort of thing and learned your lesson already. Everybody is stupid until proven otherwise.
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

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Why, why, why, don't they get out of the harbour entrance and go out to sea a bit?

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Because, from most clubs it would take ~ 1hour to get to the entrance to start with, then you've got the hassle of getting a committee boat out there and club races generally last an hour or 2 anyway - so it'd take longer to get there and back than it would to race.

I would say the reason you get "buzzed" is because you're not looking far enough around you for the progress of the racers - hence it is a bit of a shock when they turn up .... mind u - as a dinghy racer as well, it is easier for me to spot the racers and anticipate where they are going - and in a similar speed crossing situation ( officially we were stand on) we arranged a manouver that would see the race boat go uninhibited with similar lack of detriment to us - they were leading at the time!

If you regularly transit through the harbour then it may be an idea to learn the race mark names or at least establish where they are (all marked on your electronic charts) so you have a bit of extra info at your disposal.

Oh - and although the racers don't have RIGHT OF WAY, loosing a boat length can easily make the difference between 1st and last with the closeness of some of these fleets ... and most really appreciate it when you give way to them (usually with a nod or wave - I do anyway).

One last tip - if they've got the big flappy sail up at the front (kite/spinnaker) and are both standing on the side of the boat then the best course of action is to hold your course and speed - unless they shout out a request ... as it is easier for them to dodge you rather than second guess where you're going - because they don't have huge amount of choice - head up too far and they swim, head down too far and they swim ... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

It once fell to me to investigate a fatal accident that had occurred during a ski race when a skier lost his grip on the tow and was subsequently hit by a rival boat.

I think it a bit rich for someone who thinks its a good wheeze to tow skiers and race at extremely high speeds in relatively small areas to call a raggie stupid!

P.S.

I was fog bound in Brixham a few years ago when news came through that some power boats competing in the Cowes Torquay Power Boat Race had hit the beach at Paignton.Miraculously they did not kill anyone.

Nuff said?
 
Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

Quote } I was fog bound in Brixham a few years ago when news came through that some power boats competing in the Cowes Torquay Power Boat Race had hit the beach at Paignton.Miraculously they did not kill anyone.



Yes I was there and YES they were stupid too !!!!!!

Nuff said?

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Re: Raggies Unbelievable stupidity, Pics

I hear what you are saying, but if (heaven forbid) there is a serious accident, then the current situation might change.

Looking at the chart of HISC race marks in the harbour, they currently straddle the main navigable channel: it's not impossible to imagine that one day these racing marks might be required not to do so, leaving an area along Rookwood, E Head, E Head Spit, NE Winner, Mid Winner, NW Winner, Treloar as a "Yacht Channel" for larger sailing vessels (required to navigate under power) and motor boats.

Heresy, I know, but the other options are:
- A set of traffic lights at Rookwood and East Head /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
- Keep the current situation and hope that everything will be okay: and add "crash stop" training to the RYA syllabus /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
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