wwalsh
Well-Known Member
Same with the now defunct light Dutch registration, some people are using Polish registration an EU flag, for non vat paid boat.
The Polish maritime authorities have tightened requirements
- Thread starter Lorrendraaier
- Start date
westernman
Well-Known Member
But you still pay the same amount of tax as if it was French registered. (DAFN or whatever the new name is).
No real advantage of not registering it in France.
Roberto
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. There is still a small incentive for self built boats, some countries have less stringent requirements than France, but numbers are very marginal.
Plus, suppose one activates an epirb: the first relevant MRCC will be the one of the boat flag, imagine the shore contact being the average French person with basic to no command of English talking to and discussing details of the distressed boat/crew with a Polish SAR official...
Re the French tax, it depends upon various factors, for my old 40' I pay less than 100euro/year, if that goes to finance buoys, beacons, maintenance, protect specific shore locations, plus the excellent safety coverage by the mrcc (one can do everything direct through the internet, from announcing a passage to describing his boat/habits), I am happy to pay it
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Bouba
Well-Known Member
Also remember (if the law wasn’t changed) that even small motorboats in France are taxed on their engines...but the state decides that it’s not worth the effort to collect. It’s their prerogative to change their mind
Tranona
Well-Known Member
If it is a privately owned non VAT paid boat then it can only be in the EU under TA, one of the conditions being that it must be registered outside the EU (and owned by a non EU registered. So a non VAT paid boat unless owned as an asset by a business on the EU is illegal. I expect that people are doing what you say believing that the EU flag signifies an "EU" boast when there is no such thing. VAT is nothing to do with flag of registration unless it is a third country owned boat applying for TA as described. Freedom of circulation of a boat within the EU is a function of VAT payment irrespective of flag - there are many British flagged boats in the EU because they are EU VAT paid.
Roberto
Well-Known Member
Indeed, it was a scam. Buy say a US-registered boat, get the Dutch ICP (they did not check if VAT paid or not), ask for a radiation certificate from the ICP, use that to get on another EU register: not knowing exactly what the ICP was but just reading "Netherlands" on the paper, the eventual register often thought oh coming from a EU country, so VAT paid, here are your documents Sir.
After all the mess with migrants and NGO ship registered under the ICP, it eventually became clear (and loudly made so by the Dutch officials) that the ICP gave no title whatsoever to fly the Netherlands flag and was plain worthless as tax document.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Yes and no.
I have a certificate stating that I'm exempt.
The formula used to calculate the tax takes into account the length and age of the boat as well as the 'fiscal hp' of the engine.
Taxes below 75 EUR p/a are not collected - for us the tax would have 'amounted' to 46 EUR.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
My French annual tax for a SINGLE engine boat of ONLY 34 ft.....is.....wait for it.....€1500
westernman
Well-Known Member
It is because you have a big engine. (1226 for 6.7litre 39CV engine and 274 for the hull).My French annual tax for a SINGLE engine boat of ONLY 34 ft.....is.....wait for it.....€1500
If you had a pair of Man V12X (29.6 litres, 170CV) then you would get really stung (21,708 euros for the engines).
But you could then outrun the douanes when they come after you.
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Bouba
Well-Known Member
That’s very good advice
...it will also save me money because I won’t need a place in the port while I’m on the run
shan
Well-Known Member
Not looking for a way round it but would a Pre-purchase survey we have recently done, qualify?
Bouba
Well-Known Member
The real question is whether they expect you to do the survey in Poland
shan
Well-Known Member
There are places that have Polish accepted 'inspectorates' through the EU but the closest for us is Greece, which is not close. I a wondering if they would accept a survey of the safety equipment by a surveyor to issue the safety certificate. I have emailed the PRS.
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
My understanding was that you have to comply with the rules of the flag state, not the rules of all the states the boat travels though (unless it relates to firearms or similar).
The result of this is that foreign flagged boats with foreign residents get their paperwork checked but not much else. A local authority is not going to check if the boat complies with its flag state requirements, and the flag state is not going to catch you if you're in a foreign country as they have no jurisdiction.
The only way the flag state can do anything, is by way of requesting a periodic, mandated inspection from a recognised authority - which is what Poland appears to be doing.
I can see the temptation of all states to bring in laws requiring local compliance for "long term residents" - boats permanently kept in the country by a resident but flagged elsewhere - but if you are non-resident and have a foreign flag then the boat is effectively being stored abroad, and as you are only using your foreign flagged boat as a foreign resident, then the flag state rules apply, not the local ones.
I imagine there is also a lot of inter-EU pressure when one state tries to pull a fast one and offer state services to residents of other countries, so it could be that there has been political pressure put on Poland to stop them being so lax with their registration requirements.
The result of this is that foreign flagged boats with foreign residents get their paperwork checked but not much else. A local authority is not going to check if the boat complies with its flag state requirements, and the flag state is not going to catch you if you're in a foreign country as they have no jurisdiction.
The only way the flag state can do anything, is by way of requesting a periodic, mandated inspection from a recognised authority - which is what Poland appears to be doing.
I can see the temptation of all states to bring in laws requiring local compliance for "long term residents" - boats permanently kept in the country by a resident but flagged elsewhere - but if you are non-resident and have a foreign flag then the boat is effectively being stored abroad, and as you are only using your foreign flagged boat as a foreign resident, then the flag state rules apply, not the local ones.
I imagine there is also a lot of inter-EU pressure when one state tries to pull a fast one and offer state services to residents of other countries, so it could be that there has been political pressure put on Poland to stop them being so lax with their registration requirements.
Lorrendraaier
Member
The Polish maritime authorties have appointed Polski Rejestr Statków (prs.pl) to conduct the technical survey. They are the only one who are authorised to do so. Only their technical survey will get accepted. The safety inspection, which PRS can also execute, can also be executed by other appointed bodies. They how ever can not conduct the technical survey. So it is more effcicient to have PRS execute both.
shan
Well-Known Member
I fully understand all of that, the trouble is that they don't actually have very many bases which one can get the boat to for an inspection. Our closest is literally Greece. I am wondering if they have a pragmatic solution. I'm also going to talk to the Portuguese Captiania office but again, it's the same problem. I have no intention of ever brining the boat to Portugal, so it's a case of whether they have enough inspection facilities dotted around the EU or if they are willing to accept a pragmatic solution.
shan
Well-Known Member
Which, is unfortunately, not particularly pragmatic. They don't have a base in Croatia. I haver emailed them to see what they would suggest. Also looking at Part 1 on the UK registry and looking at Portuguese flagging, assuming they don't expect the boat to be in Portugal for that.
Lorrendraaier
Member
Do keep in mind that despite the fact that visiting states will not check whether you have had the survey and safety inspection done according to Polish requirements, insurance companies may do so.
So for example if you want to file a claim with the insurance company, the insurance company may ask you for the survey and safety inspection. If you can not prove you have met these requirements, the insurance companies has an excuse not to pay out, because you did not full-fill the requirements of the flag state.
I am not claiming they will do so, but it is probably not worth the risk.
shan
Well-Known Member
It's looking more and more like a UK part 1.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
You know it makes sense.
Personally, I don't get why people would not want to register either in the country where they are resident or in the country of their nationality.
What was to be gained by registering your boat in Poland when you're not Polish or resident there?