The new Prestige 680…. strong competition for the Princess 68!

I think the IPS issue for me is that it just does not have the planted feel of shafts, this is true at sea and in the marina. It's not just a feeling but the confidence that comes from knowing that I know what I and the boat can do EXACTLY. IPS is a great system in 70% of conditions and Volvo now seem to have the construction correct, but when ever it's windy in the marina and I mean F6 plus and the same at sea I would rather be on shafts every time.
 
I think the IPS issue for me is that it just does not have the planted feel of shafts, this is true at sea and in the marina. It's not just a feeling but the confidence that comes from knowing that I know what I and the boat can do EXACTLY. IPS is a great system in 70% of conditions and Volvo now seem to have the construction correct, but when ever it's windy in the marina and I mean F6 plus and the same at sea I would rather be on shafts every time.
John I bow to your broad experience and opinion but would say that for me at least, I would not use he boat above 7 tenths as it were. I'm a fair weather cruiser, as happy in a marina as I am making passage and if there's a benefit on shafts above force 6 say then I'm probably not going to see that very often. When I have been put in high winds the engine set up and centre weight of the boat is the best I've experienced. My 500 on ips 435 will vector sideways in 25kt wind, (with heavier gusting) and that's all I need.
All this reminds me of when I was a computer nerd kid, Sinclair Spectrum versus Comodore vic and all that :)
 
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As it is, I think the fuel savings are largely eaten up in scheduled maintenance costs with IPS, so I'd be carrying that risk for no gain.
Not sure that there is much in the way of fuel savings. MBY's tests of flybridge boats with IPS power tend to suggest that they don't exhibit significantly better fuel consumption over shaft drive flybridge boats. I've always thought that the big advantage of IPS is that it puts the engines further aft releasing more space for accommodation forward. Otherwise I'm with you, I've never liked the idea of dangling all those expensive gears in the water and whilst I've got no proof of it, those forward facing props have always looked vulnerable to getting fouled

However, I've got to say that IPS has been around for quite a few years now and there haven't been any real horror stories AFAIK and there is the advantage of joystick control so it's not a bad choice
 
What's wrong with that? The hottest part of the day is surely the right time to run the airco, and it's hard to sleep in stifling heat??
Ok, each to their own on that, but considering that while anchored in some nice Med bay you normally have:

a) the best cooling system known to mankind (i.e. the possibility to jump in some beautiful waters), plus
b) the opportunity to come back onboard and have a shower and a nap afterwards - either in the cockpit or under the f/b bimini, whenever you prefer to feel better the gentle afternoon breeze,

well, it seems a bit of a shame to stay inside the boat with the genset and the a/c running... :cool:
All imho, as always. :)
 
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Since I am a relative 'newbie' to motor yachting, keen to know why such antagonism to IPS?
In a nutshell, because they are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist - implying other problems along the way (on a boat, only what you don't have doesn't break!).

@ Deleted User, re. IPS horror stories: indeed there are some, around the web.
Among others, I perfectly remember a boat that sunk because the thing didn't break in the lower pod as it's supposedly designed to do when hitting something, but instead teared apart above, where the vertical shaft is, opening a large water ingress. I'm now on a poor internet connection and it's a pita to make searches, but it should be googlable.
Besides, you might remember that boat on the hard that we saw in Villasimius when we were there together: it was the only boat around with IPS, and for some reason one of them was completely removed.
You might ask also Mr. A. his take on IPS, when you'll be at the yard....
 
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If you hunt around there are quite a few owners coming onto forums posting tales of woe trying to sort out IPS issues. In most cases Volvo eventually change complete legs or the owner sacks the engineers and uses a different company which results in the problem being solved but it can take months to resolve.

I think the sinking you referred to was probably this one : http://www.turvallisuustutkinta.fi/...tutkintaselostus/c32010m_tutkintaselostus.pdf

A case of construction short-comings combined with too strong construction of the IPS leg. Obviously you don't want the things breaking off ad hoc so it's a fine balance.

There are of course instances of P brackets being punched through the hull as well so shafts are not immune when it comes to boat - hard surface impacts. What I would say is that the shafts create a natural ramp to lessen the sudden impact and deflect the boat upwards.

I can see why Fairline, Sunseeker and Princess use IPS in the sub 50 foot size range. It frees up enough space to provide an all important full beam mid cabin. Providing the weight doesn't shift too far backwards it gives the designers extra scope.

With something approaching 70 feet I would think there was enough space available using shafts.

Interestingly most cruise ships now use forward facing pods rather than shafts. It means they can let passengers dock the ships using a joystick (only joking :) ), one assumes fuel savings are achieved but the big benefit is passenger comfort. No heavy shafts to balance. You can also hold the ship in position without dropping anchor in a pristine coral reef / sea horse habitat.

The fuel savings from pods on commercial shipping is probably greater because they are less bothered by an extra metre or two of draft to achieve clean water bite. They also operate in more controlled conditions, there are very few planing 100,000 tonne ships.

Finally the money numbers are very different on a cruise ship turning over £5m plus per week and burning fuel at 12,000 litres an hour 15 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Henry :)
 
Whenever I read the IPS vs shaft discussions I cant help but think back to the fuel injection vs carburetor discussions in relation to motor cars. As the hull very definitely needs to be designed around the engine to get the benefits of IPS I also wonder if it is coincidence that the manufactures that have huge turnovers and balance sheets are the first to bring the system to market as standard due to having available funds to sink into the r and d. As far as horror stories are concerned, ram any GRP hull onto an immovable object at speed and you are in a heap of trouble. Am I right in saying that Prestige have made over 200 of the 500 all with IPS? I have looked around and I cant find any scare stories about their safety or maintenance costs, I would think with a large number out there we would be hearing about big issues online by now. I am talking about actual stories rather than my mate the mechanic heard down the pub type stories. If you listened to all of those you would never buy anything!
 
Whenever I read the IPS vs shaft discussions I cant help but think back to the fuel injection vs carburetor discussions in relation to motor cars.
Well, I'd rather compare it to the front steering wheel vs. 4 steering wheel discussion - the latter being, as I previously called the IPS, glaringly a solution to a non-existing problem.

I cant find any scare stories about their safety or maintenance costs
Re. maintenance costs, you don't need to look around for any scare stories - they are much higher than with shafts, period.
I don't think that even Volvo Penta denies that.

Besides, I suspect that most of the IPS sales were actually driven by one and only factor: the joystick/maneuverability wow factor.
Again, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist imho, but obviously a big deal for many boaters.

Anyway, all that said, if you like the IPS, who am I to argue?
Better in your boat than mine! :D
 
Wasn't it the Queen Mary 2 that grounded a pod in her first cruise.
I seem to remember that the pod was removed and she ran without it until the next dry docking.
Urgh, I wasn't aware of that.
But in reply to henryf post (whose comments I actually agree with), ship azipods are totally different beasts, built around a pod-enclosed electric propulsion.
Apple and oranges, really.

Re. hot water, wazzat, a catch 22?
A day hot enough to wish to turn on a/c while anchored, and the need to use hot water for a shower?!? :D :cool: :D
 
. Am I right in saying that Prestige have made over 200 of the 500 all with IPS? I have looked around and I cant find any scare stories about their safety or maintenance costs, I would think with a large number out there we would be hearing about big issues online by now. I am talking about actual stories rather than my mate the mechanic heard down the pub type stories. If you listened to all of those you would never buy anything!

More than double that Username, and that's the real acid test I guess. Good point well made.
Clearly the extra space that ips allowed Garoni to utilise along with perceived ease of use for the operator has been a huge driver in these sales, so why do we never hear from other owners of these boat? Perhaps it's because they are too busy enjoying their boats to be hunched up over a keyboard :) Or perhaps we will start hearing more from them in a 2016 when the first few hulls reach their five year birthday and start to fall apart ;)
 
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In a nutshell, because they are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist - implying other problems along the way (on a boat, only what you don't have doesn't break!).

@ Deleted User, re. IPS horror stories: indeed there are some, around the web.
Among others, I perfectly remember a boat that sunk because the thing didn't break in the lower pod as it's supposedly designed to do when hitting something, but instead teared apart above, where the vertical shaft is, opening a large water ingress. I'm now on a poor internet connection and it's a pita to make searches, but it should be googlable.
Besides, you might remember that boat on the hard that we saw in Villasimius when we were there together: it was the only boat around with IPS, and for some reason one of them was completely removed.
You might ask also Mr. A. his take on IPS, when you'll be at the yard....

Mapism, there will always be horror stories about every type of drive system. I nearly had my own shaftdrive horror story a couple of season's ago in Croatia when one of the shaft seals on my boat failed and started leaking badly. Yes, one might say that was a problem with the seal system rather than the principle of shaftdrive but equally you could say that IPS doesn't need shaft seals. Personally, I couldn't envisage myself buying an IPS powered boat (famous last words which will come back to haunt me one day probably!) but I recognise that is more about personal prejudice than anything else. The fact is that an increasing number of builders are using IPS or Zeus drives and there obviously haven't been a sufficient number of horror stories so far to discourage them from doing so. On a more general note, I applaud Volvo for trying to move the game on with the introduction of IPS, as they did with the introduction of sterndrives. I very much doubt that boat builders will be offering boats with fuel inefficient shaft drive in 50yrs time; some other kind of technology will have replaced it. Whether that's IPS or similar we don't know
 
I very much doubt that boat builders will be offering boats with fuel inefficient shaft drive in 50yrs time; some other kind of technology will have replaced it.

Not solar then - but maybe "Wind"
I wonder if you could power a boat using "just the wind"

:D

EDIT
Sorry - getting silly now
Counting the days until I get down to the boat - just over a week now.
 
Perhaps it's because they are too busy enjoying their boats to be hunched up over a keyboard :) Or perhaps we will start hearing more from them in a 2016 when the first few hulls reach their five year birthday and start to fall apart ;)


I think there might be some truth in your words. Clearly I hope we don't see boats falling apart but whilst the mechanicals are in warranty / goodwill period swapping out a leg or having it worked on won't be a particular issue other than a bit of time out of the water. In fact I'd even go so far as to say it fuels the love. You can't believe how good VP have been in supplying shiny new parts.

Once that honeymoon period is over and repairs have to be paid in full by the owner that will be the true test. Also once any longer term fixed servicing costs have been covered by owners. If there is genuinely are €20,000 plus services to carry out I imagine we will see a few angry fingers typing away.

Shafts have been around since the dawn of time so there is little to fear hiding round the corner.

Henry :)
 
I think there might be some truth in your words. Clearly I hope we don't see boats falling apart but whilst the mechanicals are in warranty / goodwill period swapping out a leg or having it worked on won't be a particular issue other than a bit of time out of the water. In fact I'd even go so far as to say it fuels the love. You can't believe how good VP have been in supplying shiny new parts.

Once that honeymoon period is over and repairs have to be paid in full by the owner that will be the true test. Also once any longer term fixed servicing costs have been covered by owners. If there is genuinely are €20,000 plus services to carry out I imagine we will see a few angry fingers typing away.

Shafts have been around since the dawn of time so there is little to fear hiding round the corner.

Henry :)

Sorry still don’t get this. The IPS system has been around for what 10 years? I can find some information relating back to problems with the early systems mainly related to software. The Prestige 500 has been around since 2011 (according to Nigel they have built 400+) and I think it is standard on most of their boats. It is also increasingly available in the big British brands as well as Beneteau and Jeanneau power boats, Azimut and this list goes on. Shaft has been around for ever but so was the carburetor before fuel injection. Where has this 20K service figure come from? Is it a real figure based on fact or something someone heard? I have recently purchased an older British shaft boat to see how I get on and love it. When it comes to the next purchase I am increasingly sold on the IPS system. Fearing what is round the corner is not the attitude that enabled the mariners of old to discover the new world<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Bit over the top?????!!!!! 

Seem to have hijacked the thread a bit here. I love the look of this 680 however I would think it is a bit out of budget for the foreseeable future.
 
Where has this 20K service figure come from? Is it a real figure based on fact or something someone heard? I have recently purchased an older British shaft boat to see how I get on and love it. When it comes to the next purchase I am increasingly sold on the IPS system. Fearing what is round the corner is not the attitude that enabled the mariners of old to discover the new world<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Bit over the top?????!!!!!
It's funny how you insist that any view against IPS is based on hearsay and not facts.
Of course any non-IPS boat owner can't speak by first hand experience, what's wrong with that?
Same as yourself, really: you say that you are sold on IPS, apparently based on the only fact that many boats were built with them, but you have a shafts boat.
As if it weren't true that most boats are still built with shafts, and some builders even reverted to shafts for f/b boats after having experienced the awful listing while steering induced by IPS...

Oh, and yeah, the comparison in your last line above is indeed a bit OTT. Just a tiiiny liiittle bit, you know.... :D
I'd expect that sort of argument from a Volvo Penta marketing executive, rather than from a boater.
....ermm... hang on a minute, how's your Swedish? :p
 
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It's funny how you insist that any view against IPS is based on hearsay and not facts.
Of course any non-IPS boat owner can't speak by first hand experience, what's wrong with that?
Same as yourself, really: you say that you are sold on IPS, apparently based on the only fact that many boats were built with them, but you have a shafts boat.
As if it weren't true that most boats are still built with shafts, and some builders even reverted to shafts for f/b boats after having experienced the awful listing while steering induced by IPS...

Oh, and yeah, the comparison in your last line above is indeed a bit OTT. Just a tiiiny liiittle bit, you know.... :D
I'd expect that sort of argument from a Volvo Penta marketing executive, rather than from a boater.
....ermm... hang on a minute, how's your Swedish? :p

Oh dear I have been caught out. My Swedish is a bit rusty but us Volvo executives are not required to be fluent in the mother language any longer! Suspicious bunch! :D

I did mention that the comparison may have been a bit OTT.

I think you are being a bit unfair on me. I did not insist anything. I asked if any of the views are based on facts rather than hearsay. If I had an ulterior motive I could have come unstuck very quickly by someone saying they owned a boat with IPS and it was the worst decision they ever made. I have recently purchased a boat and as someone relatively new to all this I read this forum a lot and when I have asked about a specific boat on here someone with first-hand knowledge of the model or engine has been able to give me some insight. It is a great place to pick up information. Also I did not say that I was sold on IPS due to the number of boats built with them. In fact I don’t think I mentioned why I was sold on them at all, I just really like the use of space. I asked if they are particularly problematic, and if a whole heap of them are out there why are we not hearing from disgruntled owners. I feel a bit self-conscious now and feel I need to explain myself. I have recently purchased but know that I will want bigger and newer by the end of this season. My budget will stretch to a 4 or 5 year old boat and one of the options has IPS. I would like to know if I am going to end up with some nasty bills. (Over and above the nasty bills you can normally expect with a boat a few years old).
 
This forum - ,just because you seemingly reassure yourself by minimal IPS issues ,does not mean there are not any.Ask Mr Google -" Volvo IPS problems "
From here click arround .
Water ingress -risk of seal failure
IT issues - only VP techs can solve ?
Then the 5 Y biggi -dropping the leg
+ much more .
It s not obvious looking at it in the room at a boat show or under on the hard -that's they could with age end up maintainance night mares .
Eg tell me what you think about the big thick rubber skirt -
Does it last for ever ?
Does it change out in 10 mins ? ( you have to drop the leg BTW there are 2 )
What happens if it starts to weep ?
What's the time line for change out ? -5 years , never?
tinternet is full of folks with milky gearbox oil and they all winge the fuel savings are just not there .

Have a think about the the above Q,s first then work out if you will end up with " nasty bills "
Over shafts
 
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