The new Fairline Squadron 58

[henryf]

Funnily enough I was thinking about hard tops this weekend and pondering a post on here at some point to discuss pros and cons (it’s probably been done before).

On the F55 I worry the hard top makes it a bit too too heavy (visually), as the boats get bigger they wear a hard too better but I wouldn’t option it on the Squadron 58. I’m really liking a good sized power Bimini. We’ve got raising and lowering down to a fine art which is done in the blink of an eye.

So I wouldn’t include it as standard, it’s a big ticket item to force on someone. The fold down sides however are part of the core design features.

 

[Hurricane]

Funnily enough I was thinking about hard tops this weekend and pondering a post on here at some point to discuss pros and cons (it’s probably been done before).

On the F55 I worry the hard top makes it a bit too too heavy (visually), as the boats get bigger they wear a hard too better but I wouldn’t option it on the Squadron 58. I’m really liking a good sized power Bimini. We’ve got raising and lowering down to a fine art which is done in the blink of an eye.

So I wouldn’t include it as standard, it’s a big ticket item to force on someone. The fold down sides however are part of the core design features.

I go further than that.
I like the look of hardtops but I think they are missing a trick.
Enclose the area around the hard top with good quality (and clever) opening windows.
Making it into a "sky lounge" and create another "cockpit like" patio aft of the sky lounge.
This would be a fundamental change to the design because it would need an internal staircase from the saloon deck to the sky lounge.

I don't think we use our flybridge decks enough - in the hotter climates, you would need air conditioning - in the colder climates you would need the sky lounge heated.
And the aft patio area could have external seating and BBQ etc.
So, IMHO, an internal sky lounge would be useful in all climates.
I will probably get flamed for this comment but I think of how we use our boats and boating isn't always about sitting in the open air freezing your nuts off.
Likewise, these days, in the hotter climates, we like to be out of the sun and comfortable (in the Med we often get temperatures in excess of 40 degrees when you just can't stay outside).
I just think that the extra space that flybridges provide would get more use if the boat was built that way.

Having an enclosed flybridge would also mean that you wouldn't need a lower helm releasing more space on the lower deck.

This probably doesn't work for the sub 55 foot boats but I think it would work for anything bigger.

The challenge would be to make it look right.

The concept would be a bit like this:-



Or like this:-

 

[henryf]

Visually you’ve got a hard sell on your hands. They are hideous

As and when Buddha lines up all my ducks the Princess X80 would be my go to Thai boat of choice which has exactly the arrangement you describe, helm station up top, lounge to watch the F1 GP on a Sunday whilst BBQ is underway and some sun lounging space if needed.

The American market does enclosed flybridges but I’ve never thought “I want people to judge me on that bad boy”.

 

[petem]

If you can’t code a boat without changing something as basic as the guardrails I’d call that wrong.

It's the first one they've made. If they get feedback that a slightly higher rail would be an improvement then I'm sure they'll incorporate that in future builds. Or as jfm says, just ask when ordering and it'll be fixed.

 

[rafiki_]

It does not look hard to raise the rails 150 mm. The stanchion base allows a vertical strut. Just make these longer. I’m sure it will happen.

 

[henryf]

A comment was made earlier re: the high cost of the big 3 UK builders. I was taken a back when confronted with the £2.4m plus vat price tag of this particular boat but the base line price is £1.55m plus vat. I know all too well that you will never get away with that but clearly there is some wriggle room.

Brexit was one of the reasons championed for the UK high prices but hang on a minute. Before ordering our Princess F55 I moved heaven and earth to find a European builder / model and at no point did I come across bargains. If something seemed cheaper there were always obvious reasons. When I found parity in terms of quality costs were at least as high, often higher.

What did I miss ?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

I go further than that.
I like the look of hardtops but I think they are missing a trick.
Enclose the area around the hard top with good quality (and clever) opening windows.
Making it into a "sky lounge" and create another "cockpit like" patio aft of the sky lounge.
This would be a fundamental change to the design because it would need an internal staircase from the saloon deck to the sky lounge.

Enclosed bridges have never worked in Europe for a reason or another. They work in USA and down under the most.
Some Rivieras, they make a 50 Sport Motor Yacht which I saw past Spring and I honestly thought it looked good. Maritimo also offers a similar model.
MCY is offering in the smaller 66/70/76 models, but I am not sure it was successful as they hoped. Although the EBs on the MCY look good.
Then you have the sporfishers which offers Enclosed bridges usually above 60-70ft. Viking the most popular of SF builders offers EBs from 60 feet onwards.
All sportfisher do come with HTs, although it is a very custom simple design.

For me the hard-tops on the following models do not look good; Sunseeker Man 55, Princess F55, and Azimut 53 (it is a shame cause HT on the previous Righini designs like the previous 55 and or current 50 look good), and the Ferretti 580 is probably the best of these bunch much better then the previous 550 but still not good enough.
The new Squadron 58, Absolute 56, and Galeon 560 HT do look good though in this size. HTs are improving in this 16/18 meters sizes but I think they are more challenging design wise with forward looking arches.

HT makes sense of how boats are used, over here as many do not want an enclosed space they want it open and better sun covered especially under way.

 

[jfm]

I go further than that.
I like the look of hardtops but I think they are missing a trick.
Enclose the area around the hard top with good quality (and clever) opening windows.
Making it into a "sky lounge" and create another "cockpit like" patio aft of the sky lounge.
This would be a fundamental change to the design because it would need an internal staircase from the saloon deck to the sky lounge.

I don't think we use our flybridge decks enough - in the hotter climates, you would need air conditioning - in the colder climates you would need the sky lounge heated.
And the aft patio area could have external seating and BBQ etc.
So, IMHO, an internal sky lounge would be useful in all climates.
I will probably get flamed for this comment but I think of how we use our boats and boating isn't always about sitting in the open air freezing your nuts off.
Likewise, these days, in the hotter climates, we like to be out of the sun and comfortable (in the Med we often get temperatures in excess of 40 degrees when you just can't stay outside).
I just think that the extra space that flybridges provide would get more use if the boat was built that way.

Having an enclosed flybridge would also mean that you wouldn't need a lower helm releasing more space on the lower deck.

This probably doesn't work for the sub 55 foot boats but I think it would work for anything bigger.

The challenge would be to make it look right.

The concept would be a bit like this:-

View attachment 164499

Or like this:-
View attachment 164500

Very much personal choice Hurricane but I would hate that. I want a big open space, and the problem with semi-enclosed flybridges below say 95 feet is that the open part aft becomes quite small. I also don't want to be forced to helm the boat from behind glass

I think there is benefit if manufacturers fit quick-install curtains, for the odd day when you do want an enclosure or a windbreak, eg picture below, but that's the maximum form of enclosure I would want until >95 feet. Each to their on though.

 

[jfm]

Enclosed bridges have never worked in Europe for a reason or another. They work in USA and down under the most.
Some Rivieras, they make a 50 Sport Motor Yacht which I saw past Spring and I honestly thought it looked good. Maritimo also offers a similar model.
MCY is offering in the smaller 66/70/76 models, but I am not sure it was successful as they hoped. Although the EBs on the MCY look good.
Then you have the sporfishers which offers Enclosed bridges usually above 60-70ft. Viking the most popular of SF builders offers EBs from 60 feet onwards.
All sportfisher do come with HTs, although it is a very custom simple design.

For me the hard-tops on the following models do not look good; Sunseeker Man 55, Princess F55, and Azimut 53 (it is a shame cause HT on the previous Righini designs like the previous 55 and or current 50 look good), and the Ferretti 580 is probably the best of these bunch much better then the previous 550 but still not good enough.
The new Squadron 58, Absolute 56, and Galeon 560 HT do look good though in this size. HTs are improving in this 16/18 meters sizes but I think they are more challenging design wise with forward looking arches.

HT makes sense of how boats are used, over here as many do not want an enclosed space they want it open and better sun covered especially under way.

"Looking good" can depend on whether you're on the boat or not. A princess x-95 isn't the ugliest thing in the world when you're on it looking out. Same with hardtops that you mention as not good looking - they are nice when you're on board the boat.

 

[jfm]

It's the first one they've made. If they get feedback that a slightly higher rail would be an improvement then I'm sure they'll incorporate that in future builds. Or as jfm says, just ask when ordering and it'll be fixed.

Yup I saw/walked around the boat at the weekend and I too think the handrails need raising c150mm. Easy mod to make, and I hope they do it. This is hull #1 remember. As regards the side decks more generally, they were beautifully wide. 7 planks of teak so ballpark 350mm. Felt like walking around a 70 footer - meaningfully wider than competitors including princess f55 (a bit less than 5 full planks iirc).

More generally, I thought it was a very nice boat. I'm not a lover of aft galleys but if you are then this was very nice. The extended bathing planform was extraordinarily big and therefore nice for Med use. Nice interior, of course quite customisable, and a huge master cabin for a 58 footer. Very classy passerelle, from a new supplier. Imho the lower helm was great, and the tales of it being hard to see out of were exaggerated. Yes a 175mm raise in the floor level would be useful, but that's a small detail on a hull #1. The single piece curved glass windscreen was stunning - I think it was compound curved which must be a first on this class of boat. Princess f55 stll has a centre mullion iirc. All round an excellent boat imho (as is princess f55 of course )

 

[Hurricane]

Very much personal choice Hurricane but I would hate that. I want a big open space, and the problem with semi-enclosed flybridges below say 95 feet is that the open part aft becomes quite small. I also don't want to be forced to helm the boat from behind glass

I think there is benefit if manufacturers fit quick-install curtains, for the odd day when you do want an enclosure or a windbreak, eg picture below, but that's the maximum form of enclosure I would want until >95 feet. Each to their on though.

I don't want to drift this thread away from the OP but my point was that we could use our flybridges more if they were enclosed and air conditioned. My point was that you still have a patio for outside use (that would get more use than the similar area on a flybridge. I don't think that enclosing a hard top with covers quite does it for me. I think a sky lounge should have all the comforts of the saloon. However some clever opening windows would mean you wouldn't have to helm behind glass.

Back to the Squaddie 58
I'm not sure that the dropsides would work well in the Med. No use in a marina (no space) so only any good at anchor and you know how few boats these days "go to sea".
Still, the dropsides are a great selling point - if I were ordering, I would probably tick that box (we actually have space on our SCM berth for that and we actually use the boat at anchor).

 

[MapisM]

A princess x-95 isn't the ugliest thing in the world when you're on it looking out.

Trouble is, you must walk along a dock to reach it and go onboard.
So, the image of what IS indeed the ugliest thing in the world remains planted in your head also while you're on it!

BTW, how Pininfarina managed to make her even more of an eyesore than its smaller sibling X80 (which is still fugly anyway!) is a mistery to me.
Normally, the larger the boat, the easier it is to draw decent lines, but... Hey-ho!

 

[henryf]

Am I getting the sense that you guys don’t find the X95 attractive?

Even a Princess fanboy such as myself has to agree. I can’t find a single angle that works. The shorter X80 however I could live with and that’s weird, normally the longer the boat the better it looks.

I’ve been converted on the aft galley. We don’t have a full time chef or cater serious meals so it works. My litmus test is ample refrigeration and the S58 has a pair of programmable drawers like the new Manhattan 55. The trick is also being prepared to give up enough window real estate to accommodate upper cupboards which the S58 does. All too often aft galley boats are let down by very limited provision.

Interesting how your eye works @jfm in that you pick up stuff I simply don’t notice, I’m distracted by other areas.

 

[jfm]

Trouble is, you must walk along a dock to reach it and go onboard.
So, the image of what IS indeed the ugliest thing in the world remains planted in your head also while you're on it!

BTW, how Pininfarina managed to make her even more of an eyesore than its smaller sibling X80 (which is still fugly anyway!) is a mistery to me.
Normally, the larger the boat, the easier it is to draw decent lines, but... Hey-ho!

Solution is to walk along dock blindfolded .
BTW, I had a good look at "sister" boat, the Y95, at Cannes show. Much less fugly than X95 of course. Very nice boat in many respects but disappointing in others. Flybridge was a very nice space for a 95-er and engine room was nice (v12 engines allowed plenty of space). Very good layout/allocation of space/crew movements/foredeck set up, imho. But it felt like a small Princess stretched to a bigger size = same horrible clicky 50pence door knobs everywhere urgh, sofas made by Princess and "fitted" like bus seats, thin doors/panels (cabin doors c.32mm), 6mm teak, etc. Could be good if they did a bit more.

 

[jfm]

Am I getting the sense that you guys don’t find the X95 attractive?

Even a Princess fanboy such as myself has to agree. I can’t find a single angle that works. The shorter X80 however I could live with and that’s weird, normally the longer the boat the better it looks.

I’ve been converted on the aft galley. We don’t have a full time chef or cater serious meals so it works. My litmus test is ample refrigeration and the S58 has a pair of programmable drawers like the new Manhattan 55. The trick is also being prepared to give up enough window real wastage to accommodate upper cupboards which the S58 does. All too often aft galley boats are let down by very limited provision.

Interesting how your eye works @jfm in that you pick up stuff I simply don’t notice, I’m distracted by other areas.

I'm an aft galley hater ( ) but that's a totally personal choice. When I'm sitting on aft deck having pre-dinner g+t the last thing i want to see is the chef screaming around the place with apron on fire as mini disasters occur (as is normal!) in the kitchen. But I can easily get that aft galleys work well for lots of people.

You're right Henry that there is a trade off of cupboards vs window space. Again it's a choice. Fairline will fit a tall fridge instead of the drawers in sq58, if the owner specs that and is prepared to lose some window space. There's no fly staircase to avoid.

Agree that x80 is a lot less fugly than x95

 

[Hurricane]

I'm an aft galley hater ( ) but that's a totally personal choice. When I'm sitting on aft deck having pre-dinner g+t the last thing i want to see is the chef screaming around the place with apron on fire as mini disasters occur (as is normal!) in the kitchen. But I can easily get that aft galleys work well for lots of people.

You're right Henry that there is a trade off of cupboards vs window space. Again it's a choice. Fairline will fit a tall fridge instead of the drawers in sq58, if the owner specs that and is prepared to lose some window space. There's no fly staircase to avoid.

Aft galley.
I was going to say something like that

I like to think of our boat as a "home from home"
I don't think many people invite friends into their house/home through the kitchen.
I just think it is more natural having the saloon next to the cockpit - not the kitchen.
This brings me to my pet hate.
None of these offerings have an internal staircase.
Our internal stairs give us good galley access to the flybridge, dinette and cockpit - our three socialising areas.
When looking at the boat porn in the mags, the first thing that I reject is any IPS drives - the next thing is the aft galley (and no internal stairs).
Sorry - I just think these new designs are a huge backward step.

 

[Pinnacle]

Aft galley.
I was going to say something like that

I like to think of our boat as a "home from home"
I don't think many people invite friends into their house/home through the kitchen.
I just think it is more natural having the saloon next to the cockpit - not the kitchen.
This brings me to my pet hate.
None of these offerings have an internal staircase.
Our internal stairs give us good galley access to the flybridge, dinette and cockpit - our three socialising areas.
When looking at the boat porn in the mags, the first thing that I reject is any IPS drives - the next thing is the aft galley (and no internal stairs).
Sorry - I just think these new designs are a huge backward step.

Mike. But an aft galley is (usually) really close to the fly bridge stairs.

 

[jfm]

Aft galley.
I was going to say something like that

I like to think of our boat as a "home from home"
I don't think many people invite friends into their house/home through the kitchen.
I just think it is more natural having the saloon next to the cockpit - not the kitchen.
This brings me to my pet hate.
None of these offerings have an internal staircase.
Our internal stairs give us good galley access to the flybridge, dinette and cockpit - our three socialising areas.
When looking at the boat porn in the mags, the first thing that I reject is any IPS drives - the next thing is the aft galley (and no internal stairs).
Sorry - I just think these new designs are a huge backward step.

Mike we lost the internal stairs battle some years ago

As of nearly a decade ago, they have been gone from even 75 footers - the Sq78 was an honourable exception and Sunseeker would custom fit to their 80 yacht and nowadays their 88 if you ask hard and pay. Ferretti lost them when the 750 ended.

Now you have Azimut making an 86 foot RPH (Grande 26) and Princess making Y85 without them.

Basically you get them at 90 feet nowadays -Riva Argo, Sanlorenzo SL90, Azimut 27m- and with "flybridge saloon" boats which are rare but Princess x80 is an example. I don't count boats like several Sanlorenzos that have internal stairs without also having exterior stairs.

 

[sharpness]

Am I getting the sense that you guys don’t find the X95 attractive?

 

[Hurricane]

OK, I guess I'm a bit of a dinosaur - but a happy dinosaur