Elessar
Well-known member
Henry got his Princess coded without messing around with the standard rails I think using an exception that he can explain.
The new Fairline Squadron 58
- Thread starter henryf
- Start date
Greg2
Well-known member
The guardrail height on the S58 appears to be the classic victory of form over function that besets many mobos. Looking at the photos I would describe them as unsafe but as the owner of a Hardy I am used to over-engineered rails and very safe side decks. Crucially, SWMBO feels very safe, which is very important as she usually does lines and fenders 
henryf
Well-known member
henryf
Well-known member
colhel
Well-known member
Are you in Yarmouth Henry? We're nearby.
henryf
Well-known member
I was on charter, dropped guests off at the Hut. But a bit lumpy, their rib was struggling a bit so we went into Yarmouth. Back in Lymington having finished charter.
Might do Cowes tomorrow.
jfm
Well-known member
God this rails saga is boring henry. A photo album of pictures ffs!
Just ask Fairline to build a sq58 with slightly higher rails, and they will oblige. Unlike princess who will hardly change a cup holder even if you buy a £10m boat, Fairline will always do a few custom requests.
Just ask Fairline to build a sq58 with slightly higher rails, and they will oblige. Unlike princess who will hardly change a cup holder even if you buy a £10m boat, Fairline will always do a few custom requests.
Elessar
Well-known member
I think it highlights that Fairline have got this as wrong as sunseeker have with their styling bulge compromising the side decks.
You shouldn’t have to ask for or pay extra for guard rails. And most of us can’t afford new boats, it would be difficult and expensive to fix retrospectively.
And you should be able to trust a boatbuilder to get things like this right. How many other style over boating compromises are there?
henryf
Well-known member
If I’ve descended into the rabbit Warren of technical minutiae which caused me to move away from the forum I apologise. Photos were a visual reference which I find easier than quoting measurements.
As you know I’m not a fan of custom changes preferring the original design to fit my needs or to be able to modify my use around the original design.
I will hold my hands high in the air and admit that bar a few forays in Thailand my entire boating life has been in the UK. I’ve never once picked up a lazy line so maybe my requirements are different to others.
As you know I’m not a fan of custom changes preferring the original design to fit my needs or to be able to modify my use around the original design.
I will hold my hands high in the air and admit that bar a few forays in Thailand my entire boating life has been in the UK. I’ve never once picked up a lazy line so maybe my requirements are different to others.
DAW
Active member
I don't think it's fair to describe either Sunseeker's styling decisions or Fairline's choice of rail height as "wrong" in absolute terms. Design choices and compromises are made in every aspect of boat building and reputable builders such as Sunseeker and Fairline make them for good reasons (including styling and appearance) and work within and comply with all the safety regulations that apply to their boats. Whether their choices work for you or not is a personal consideration and depends on what you as an owner want to prioritise and how you use your boat.
There are lots of reputable builders who don't fit guard rails to their boats ... and also some where guard rails are an extra-cost option on some models. Good examples of this are Riva, Wally and Itama ... I don't think you can say that the Ferretti Group doesn't know how to build good boats or get things right. Boats like this are perfect for sitting at anchor on a hot. calm, summer's day in the Med ... whether they are the right choice for an offshore expedition on a winter's day in the English Channel is a different question.
So far as Sunseeker is concerned ... I've owned several, all with the "styling bulge" and at no time have I ever felt this impacted on the usability of the side decks or compromised safety. Sunseeker are not alone in flaring out the superstructure ... you will see this on many Med-based sports cruisers and flybridges from well known Italian builders.
On my current Predator 57, I measured the height of the railings yesterday and apart from one small area where there is a step up to the side deck, the minimum height is 75cm ... which to me seems perfectly acceptable on a boat of this size and type.
Portofino
Well-known member
We are back to the deck of 52 cards analogy I mentioned .Higher than ave guard rails , or indeed any at all are just one of the cards to sort .
Each person has a preferred and different order .One has to respect that .We are not clones .
On the same theme for me it’s a 51 card deck anyhow , with the obvious “guard rail “card missing .
Theres no wrong top 10 card order . But it’s interesting to hear other folks choices and there rationale.It certainly not boring .
Each person has a preferred and different order .One has to respect that .We are not clones .
On the same theme for me it’s a 51 card deck anyhow , with the obvious “guard rail “card missing .
Theres no wrong top 10 card order . But it’s interesting to hear other folks choices and there rationale.It certainly not boring .
colhel
Well-known member
We're on the Island till next Friday, so if you're guest free and fancy a coffee, be good to catch up.
MapisM
Well-known member
Thanks for supporting my humble attempt to quote numbers, rather than debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!
I also agree that labelling as a victory of form over function the Sq58 guardrails, as if they were a matter of black or white, is simplistic to say the least. And ironically, henry's pics of his P55 (together with your comment on the step up) are the best proof of that, because even without knowing actual numbers, it's easy to spot the following:
1) the guardrails are straight from stern to bow, so there is a substantial difference in their height if measured before or after the deck step around midship. From the pics alone, they seem to me higher than average astern of the step, but pretty average forward of it.
2) the internal handrail is way too high than it should be strictly from a functional standpoint.
Now, why didn't Princess raise the external guardrail in correspondance with the deck step?
As BTW a builder like Sanlorenzo (and also others) did when they were still building smallish boats with multi-level decks, like the SL62, where the gunwale was straight along the whole boat length, but the guardrail on top of it was raised forward of the deck step.
And why didn't they place the internal handrail across the side windows, rather than along the curved top of the superstructure?
Yet again, victory of form over function is the most obvious but simplistic answer.
The fact that we are talking of boats for which, if the builder wants to sell them, being easy to the eye is as essential as being "safe" (if not even more!) is the more down to earth answer.
Elessar
Well-known member
If you can’t code a boat without changing something as basic as the guardrails I’d call that wrong.
Portofino
Well-known member
Hang on a min the Med scene is different to U.K.
My sans guard rails boat was built for commercial use as a taxi boat Naples to Capri hotel .It obviously passed what ever regs / codes were around at the time and it worked very well for its intended purpose .
So much so they are very popular charter boats ( and else where in the Med ) around the Amalfi region .
Similarly there’s a lot of Sunseekers all sizes on charter in the CdA a disproportionate number btw .
They look from a guard rail pov standard factory spec .
Not sure if S/Skr have alternative ( taller ) guard rails fitted if CdA based a buyer blurts out while writing the deposit check “ Build it for Fr Charter ps i fancy a slice of that pie “
DAW
Active member
OK ...
For coding purposes, most flag states have always required a minimum height of 1000mm in areas which are accessible during navigation. A quick look around any marina in the Med will reveal that the majority of boats below 60-70 feet struggle to meet this requirement, regardless of age and whether they are in charter use or not. In your earlier post (39), you commented that your own coded boat also fails to meet this requirement.
In addition to long-established builders of boats without railings (like Riva, Wally, Itama, etc.), many of the boats in the 40-50ft range from new builders like Wajer, Pardo, etc. come with flat foredecks, narrow side decks and no guardrails. These boats are increasingly popular throughout the Med as day boats, many of them operated by commercial charter companies.
The solution for coding boats in this size range has always been (and will probably continue to be) restricting access to side and foredecks to crew only during navigation and marking everything accordingly ... a restriction which in true southern European style is then largely ignored.
Elessar
Well-known member
You are crew only on the foredeck not passengers. If you had a dinette you’d want passengers there.
And I have to say the design of your boat with no guardrails is bonkers. I’d never buy it for that reason alone. But each to their own, I know you love it so I’m glad it is as it is.
PowerYachtBlog
Well-known member
I agree with this. I think this pricing is down to two factors; Brexit, and supply chain, with most stuff coming from outside UK.
But then in Genova a client of mine was offered a V55 at 1.6 million EURO with VAT nealy all option ex Seakeeper ready in San Remo.
Seakeeper offered fitted in Italy at 70k EUROS.
PowerYachtBlog
Well-known member
Thank you HenryF for this post.
The Squadron 58 is a great design with a stupid all option list, which I think in a product of this price quality and size you cannot do.
The strong points of the Squadron 58 are all on the options list, and that is why this boat IMO is a hard sell.
For this product to really bother Princess/Ss/Azimut/Ferretti they could have made some of the WoW factors of the boat as standard, and say a 5-10% bump in basic price.
Standirazation is easier to reduce price.
The hard-top is one of the best designs in this size (well done Fairline) but it being an option is silly, and at least make one of the folding balconies (the one with the purpose) to port side as standard. (Galeon do it this way). I would add that I would also try to push the extended lowering platform as standard, which IMO is the stand out feature of the Squadron 58.iii.
I think with the new Squadron 58 Fairline could have gone another direction and that is to do a basic design like the rest of the competition (or even a bit cheaper), without all these birds and whistles price it as the competition and enter the fold.
It will be interesting what the Squadron 58 will sell.
In the med folding balconies are a hit and miss, they do okay on walk-around sport cruisers forty to sixty feet in size. Note that in the med, folding balconies are a feature you cannot use in the marina.
In Genova Solaris Power told me of 100 boats 90 are with the balconies (they are an option on them), although in these boats the balconies become part of the bathing platform sun-pad area.
For Evo Yachts which debuted that similar bathing platform mechanism of the Sq58 some years ago it is 50/50 for example.
Fiart for example is 30/70.
But then again the most sold WA-center-console the Pardo 43 does not have them.
The Squadron 58 is a great design with a stupid all option list, which I think in a product of this price quality and size you cannot do.
The strong points of the Squadron 58 are all on the options list, and that is why this boat IMO is a hard sell.
For this product to really bother Princess/Ss/Azimut/Ferretti they could have made some of the WoW factors of the boat as standard, and say a 5-10% bump in basic price.
Standirazation is easier to reduce price.
The hard-top is one of the best designs in this size (well done Fairline) but it being an option is silly, and at least make one of the folding balconies (the one with the purpose) to port side as standard. (Galeon do it this way). I would add that I would also try to push the extended lowering platform as standard, which IMO is the stand out feature of the Squadron 58.iii.
I think with the new Squadron 58 Fairline could have gone another direction and that is to do a basic design like the rest of the competition (or even a bit cheaper), without all these birds and whistles price it as the competition and enter the fold.
It will be interesting what the Squadron 58 will sell.
In the med folding balconies are a hit and miss, they do okay on walk-around sport cruisers forty to sixty feet in size. Note that in the med, folding balconies are a feature you cannot use in the marina.
In Genova Solaris Power told me of 100 boats 90 are with the balconies (they are an option on them), although in these boats the balconies become part of the bathing platform sun-pad area.
For Evo Yachts which debuted that similar bathing platform mechanism of the Sq58 some years ago it is 50/50 for example.
Fiart for example is 30/70.
But then again the most sold WA-center-console the Pardo 43 does not have them.
Attachments
PowerYachtBlog
Well-known member
You are right, but the with bulkhead closed, it becomes a tight squeeze, unlike with the railing, which opens the beam above the toe rail.
I got the impression of what Henry says from the Boats.co.uk walk through video, that moving in there is tight, even for me who is just a 32 waist.