The Med

rafiki_ said:
Not that I know. Diesel built in Austria, not Prussia.��
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Good for you, but doesn't change the fact that a substantial chunk of what you called "proper engineering" should rather be called cheating, in plain English.

BTW, interestingly, you are now saying "not that I know" - Freudian slip, or what!? :rolleyes:
 
MapisM said:
Good for you, but doesn't change the fact that a substantial chunk of what you called "proper engineering" should rather be called cheating, in plain English.

BTW, interestingly, you are now saying "not that I know" - Freudian slip, or what!? :rolleyes:
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In the auto industry we knew that engine controllers were optimised for the TA tests, and the controllers could detect when the engine was being tested. In my opinion this was fair game. For VW to come out and admit to cheating was quite a shock. German colleagues, are hugely disappointed with VW, as it points the finger at them too, as per your statement above. But they are adamant that this was a VW Group issue. There is a huge amount of testing being undertaken by regulators and others, and I have not heard of any other companies being implicated yet.
My statement on engineering referenced the complete process, not the emissions testing. Having worked in the industry for many years, I have worked with many auto companies, and am in a reasonable place to comment. ��
 
rafiki_ said:
German colleagues, are hugely disappointed with VW, as it points the finger at them too, as per your statement above.
But they are adamant that this was a VW Group issue.
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This is exactly the key issue, with German corporations and their leaders.
VW competitors were not disappointed with VW because they cheated, but because they might have been affected.
And while you might argue that this attitude has not much to see with engineering in a strict technical sense, it's one of the reasons why I tend to disagree whenever anyone suggest that engineering is by definition "proper" when it's German.
Btw, I'm aware (and have utmost respect) of your specific experience in automotive, but when it comes to managerial attitude in big corporations - which is something valid for any industrial sector - I can assure you that I also know what I'm talking about.
 
MapisM said:
This is exactly the key issue, with German corporations and their leaders.
VW competitors were not disappointed with VW because they cheated, but because they might have been affected.
And while you might argue that this attitude has not much to see with engineering in a strict technical sense, it's one of the reasons why I tend to disagree whenever anyone suggest that engineering is by definition "proper" when it's German.
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Sorry P, I have to disagree. It is the issue of bringing engineering into dispute that hurts the German Engineers that I have spoken to, not the impact on their businesses.
Perhaps if I change the word proper to thorough, in the context of German Engineering, we can be of accord?
 
rafiki_ said:
Sorry P, I have to disagree. It is the issue of bringing engineering into dispute that hurts the German Engineers that I have spoken to, not the impact on their businesses.
Perhaps if I change the word proper to thorough, in the context of German Engineering, we can be of accord?
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As far as German engineering is concerned, it is not what it used to be. We as a company get through many vehicles, & will not be buying any more MB products, from cars through trucks, due to the problems we have had & the lack of interest in providing support. We currently have two fairly late sprinters off the road due to engine problems & the total lack of available replacement units. (indicating a wider problem)
 
rubberduck said:
As far as German engineering is concerned, it is not what it used to be. We as a company get through many vehicles, & will not be buying any more MB products, from cars through trucks, due to the problems we have had & the lack of interest in providing support. We currently have two fairly late sprinters off the road due to engine problems & the total lack of available replacement units. (indicating a wider problem)
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Daimler had a big cost down purge, some 10 years or so ago, and really lost the plot. The previous gen "C" and "E" derivatives did not feel like MB's, and their electrical/electronics reliability was appalling. The "S" remains the best it class. Can't speak for the Sprinter, other than to note it appears to be the fastest vehicle on the UK roads :D
 
rafiki_ said:
Sorry P, I have to disagree. It is the issue of bringing engineering into dispute that hurts the German Engineers that I have spoken to, not the impact on their businesses.
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Did you put a bug under a table in the canteen of Werk Steyr, when you went to check how they were building your engine? :rolleyes:
Don't trust all of what you hear in official meetings, or whenever they speak to anyone who doesn't belong to their inner circle, for that matter...
 
MapisM said:
Did you put a bug under a table in the canteen of Werk Steyr, when you went to check how they were building your engine? :rolleyes:
Don't trust all of what you hear in official meetings, or whenever they speak to anyone who doesn't belong to their inner circle, for that matter...
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Not sure where you are going with this P, and I have drifted this thread far enough, so I'm going to do "a Rafiki" and butt out from now. :)
 
I thought this was a mobo forum......so let's get back on thread guys......especially as reading about crappy old Italian cars bores me!! :sleeping:
 
Absolutely nothing, of course.
I was just subtly suggesting that complaining about o/t in a thread like this, titled "The Med", sounds like handing out speeding tickets at Indianapolis - if I may throw in another nonsense quote... :cool:
 
MapisM said:
Absolutely nothing, of course.
I was just subtly suggesting that complaining about o/t in a thread like this, titled "The Med", sounds like handing out speeding tickets at Indianapolis - if I may throw in another nonsense quote... :cool:
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Ok, but love the reference to a terrific track from one of my favorite albums ��
 
Believe it or not, I can still sing it all by heart, after all those years.
Not that I'm pretending to compete with PG voice, of course... :)
 
Deleted User said:
Portofino is a rip off and much cheaper to stay in St Margharita next door and visit Portofino by taxi.
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Yes, Portofino is a rip off. I paid 450 Euros per night for my 64 footer but,..... as a motoryacht owner, there is nothing like being with your yacht at Portofino, having a drink at the sunset, being one of the 16 only boats there that night makes you feel very privileged. I don't say that it should be done each time, but once you made it to there, it is worth staying there. Of course if you can find a place :cool:
 
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