The last British cod was seen driving.....

[BrendanS]

Re: sustainable for ever?

There have been some interesting developments in some small island communities (can't remember where exactly, I'd have to look it up, somewhere warm and exotic)

Over fishing was a problem. Education to local fishermen was given. Village elders put entire areas out of bounds, then rotated them, and limited catches. Failing fishing community bounced back. The difference was that the locals and elders understood that overfishing caused problems, and once the scientists pointed out the resolution, they acted on it.

This happened on a very small scale compared to the European problem, but shows that it can be done if the politicians and vested interests are taken out of the equation.

 

[Bergman]

Re: sustainable for ever?

Let me try to help.

Firstly I never said or believed that trawler owners were the people to manage a fishery in a sustainable manner.

The mechanism for doing so is simple in principle, the difficulty is in the implementation.

To be sustainable it is necessary to limit the total catch to figure not greter than that replaced by nature. That is what Iceland did and did very succesfully, and we have a much longer coastline than Iceland.

The British Isles have by far the longest coastline of any European country. If that coastline was managed for the benefit of the British Isles it would be capable of supplying the market in UK and Irish Republic indefinately.

The reason for this mess is that British politicians effectively agreed to destroying the British fishing industry to benefit other European countries as part of the price of entry to the EEC.

This is not my opinion. It has been stated as a fact by those involved in the negotiation.

It typifies the duplicity of those politicians, if you remember we joined a common market, it is only many years later that they admitted the intention was a federal European state.

Put simply, they lied thro their teeth at the time.

And are quite happy to continue benefitting from lying to us now.

 

[TheBoatman]

Re: A mate just back from Ireland told me...

It was Billy Connolly that said that and I have subscribed to the same arguement for some years now. I refuse to vote for ANY of these buggers until they have the guts to put "Non of the Above" on the voting slip.

 

[TheBoatman]

Re: sustainable for ever?

A good number of years ago the Bass stocks were very low and surprisingly MAFF stepped in and placed a TOTAL ban on fishing for them in certain areas. These areas were those considered to be the breeding grounds. We have one here on the R.Medway. Low and behold Bass fishing has recovered, the fishermen that were all doom and gloom about the ban are STILL here and wonder of wonders catching lots of nice big Bass and making a fairly nice living at it too!.

 

[halcyon]

Re: sustainable for ever?

Furtunatly the English public have very short memories, and never ask what happened to what we voted for.
All I remember voting for was no inport/export tariffs, no customs between countries, and free movement of goods between countries.


Brian

 

[ccscott49]

Re: A mate just back from Ireland told me...

We have been sold down the river in Europe by OUR politicians, just as we were sold into the union, by our (Scots) lords and ladies, we are still serfs, and will remain so, until we stop these arseholes! The difference between us and France, is a revolution! The police won't go up against strikers etc, because they are the peoples police! Not like our gestapo! Could you see the army being called in in France to break a firefighters strike? or the navy to break a fishermans blockade? No bloody way, they wouldn't turn on their own people, riot police against mining strikers, who were right anyway? no way! We in Britain are just pussies and will allow anybody to walk right over us. She may have been a bitch (maggie) but she wouldn't let europe dictate to us! Blair just wants to be president of europe! I also totally disagree with the Iraq thing, if we have evidence of WOMD, then give it to the weapons inspectors, so they can go and have a look! But we have to stop fishing, now, then protect our own, up to at least 100 miles out, fishing grounds! Then keep everybody else out of them! Forceably! We do have a navy, I seem to remember! Rant over, Merry Christmas to you all!

 

[Guest]

Re: A mate just back from Ireland told me...

I'm not a politician, not related to one, not involved in politics in any way. I do disagree with some of their decisions on our behalf, but to vilify all of them, to slander all of them in the way that posters have done above is puerile and quite nasty.

There's only one answer to these rants. If you dont like the politicians you've got, them get off your ar**s and run for office. If you cant be bothered to do that, you have no basis for abusing those who do.

Cynicism is a corrupting disease.

Merry Christmas to you all, inc the politicians

 

[bryantee]

Re: A mate just back from Ireland told me...

colin calm down days to do very few enjoy the leave.enjoy the show .and a good hogmanay.
dram a is a town in greece.!

 

[ccscott49]

Re: A mate just back from Ireland told me...

I shall wear the sackcloth and ashes with pride!!

 

[duncan]

Re: sustainable for ever?

your example is excellent - but I stand by my point that if the fishermen, or the direct community, does not reap the benefits then they will not 'go willingly'. If fo rexample theywere told to reduce take so that a village 50 miles away could come down and catch it's fill too they wouldn't .

 

[duncan]

Re: sustainable for ever?

The reason for this mess is that British politicians effectively agreed to destroying the British fishing industry to benefit other European countries as part of the price of entry to the EEC

agreed...however they thought (1) it was worth it and (2) the fishing wouldn't be destroyed only the UK industry.

Now of course Austria is seen as wanting to destroy the dutch and scottish fishing industries - when all they are trying to do is save the fishery itself.
I think we are agreeing in principle

 

[ponapay]

I have the greatest sympathy ..

with the British fisherman BUT they have knowingly overfished for years and have brought the 'disaster' on themselves.

They did it in the early part of the last century and again in the middle with herring.

BUT the real culprits are the EU Commissioners who continue to support building of new fishing vessels and perhaps should think about support for building yachts - there is a much greater chance of a continued demand for quality yachts than for fishing vessels.

 

[halcyon]

Re: I have the greatest sympathy ..

But at the same time the UK nevers looks at it's actions, just it's perceived one.
In the 80's Maggie paid founderies to close down to reduce capacity, one steel foundrey was FH Lloyds. What they did not concider was they were basically the only foundry capable of doing the work, and a lot of there work was won from German founderies. Result was that we paid to close a UK foundery and tranfer there order book to Germany. Now we are paying to scrap small UK trawlers that we can control, and transfer quota to EU large trawlers that we have limited control.
Should we send a copy of the SOLAS regs to the UK government, may help ther planning.

Brian

 

[webcraft]

Up here in NE Scotland our local rag is full of nothing but sob stories about our poor fishermen and how their lives will be ruined by a drop in days per month at sea from 21 to 15.

That's a drop in income of 30% by my calculation. That's also not poverty in my book.

The fishing community in NE towns like Fraserburgh and Peterhead have enjoyed a wealthy lifestyle of conspicuous consumption for most of the previous century. In a bizarre fin-de-siecle illustration of this, in recent years Fraserburgh has had an extraordinarily large percentage of heroin addicts, but very little drug-related crime - because most of them can afford their habit.

Here's a typical quote:

'I just want to be left to fish like my father did and my grandfather before him.'

Local heroes include those who have taken on Fisheries Protection vessels and outwitted them.

While it is undoubtably true that the EEC have handled the whole fisheries issue in an incompetent and apparently biased manner, UK fishermen must take some blame because of their complete intransigence and unwillingness to compromise. They seem to be unable to grasp the big picture and unprepared to save some fish for their grandchildren, and so are having change thrust upon them.

Instead of moaning on television, demanding handouts and blockading UK ports, why don't our fishermen get out there and try some Greenpeace tactics on the sand eel fishery and some of the other industrial predators hoovering the sea bed clean of life? It might generate a little more sympathy and informed discussion of the problem.

As for not eating fish - well, every fish you don't eat will still be caught and killed - and probably fed to pigs. Get your local chip shop to change to haddock - there's still plenty of that at the moment - and don't support anything that supports the fishmeal industry.

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue>
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