The keelboat: evolution or disaster, for my dinghy-cruising ambitions?

[Greenheart]

I like the sportiness & handiness of dinghies...but the bigger & more capable their design, the less handy they tend to be...

...and I've been hide-bound by concerns about staying upright in a boat not designed for my modest personal ballast.

As is my habit, I looked at a Flying Dutchman for sale on Apollo Duck, but mistakenly clicked on 'Flying Fifteen' instead.

The Flying Fifteen has plenty of fans, and, I've noticed, quite a few decided critics. I can see it's not a very practical design - unable to dry out, very heavy to haul out, vulnerable rudder, not specially roomy, not even specially quick...

...but, it's certainly going to stay upright when unattended on a mooring...and at only 20 ft, the mooring shouldn't cost a lot...although it'd have to be an 'A' class deep-water location.

Contributors here have suggested the F15 to me before, but I've tended to overlook it as too much hassle, too much weight for my sort of use. Plus, how much bother is 'dry-sailing'?

But on second thoughts...if I was to apply a thick layer of anti-fouling to an oldie, and find a cheap deep mooring in a sheltered spot...mightn't I leapfrog dinghies altogether, and move into sporty boom-tent cruising without the hindrance of a centreboard case?

Half my notion of dinghy-cruising fun has been creek-crawling and beaching. That'll be largely off the menu for a F15...but I'd enjoy going further offshore with fixed ballast. Plus I love how the well-preserved (or restored) 'classic' F15s look...

...so, I'm all ears for advice...whether you like 'em or loathe 'em, I'd like to know. Please remember I DO NOT RACE.

 

[Sandgrounder]

Nothing inherently wrong with the idea of a keelboat; I know because I have one myself. I wouldn't choose a Ff though; you tend more to sit on it than in it. You'd be better too look at a Yeoman or a Squib: both good boats that can take the weather and should be capable of adaptation to provide very basic accommodation i.e. floor space to sleep!

 

[Uricanejack]

Dragon?

 

[Greenheart]

Dragon? I wish!

If I had that sort of budget, I'd be thinking along Achilles 24 lines...

 

[jwilson]

Dragon? I wish!

If I had that sort of budget, I'd be thinking along Achilles 24 lines...

Old non-competitive Dragons can be surprisingly cheap: the ones that are actually raced are so ultra-pampered and money-no-object-kitted-out that non-competitive ones are almost valueless. I know of a scruffy but very sound wooden one that sold for about £1,000 - possibly less than the value of the lead in her keel. Dragons are also lovely to sail, very, very pretty, and you can just sleep under cover on board, on older plainer boats without 300 little dyneema strings and pulleys in the well to tweak every quarter inch of the rig.

 

[Easticks28]

Nothing inherently wrong with the idea of a keelboat; I know because I have one myself. I wouldn't choose a Ff though; you tend more to sit on it than in it. You'd be better too look at a Yeoman or a Squib: both good boats that can take the weather and should be capable of adaptation to provide very basic accommodation i.e. floor space to sleep!

+1 for Yeoman

I owned one of these fine craft for some time before my present boat. You could also consider the Kinsman, same design and rig, but with a lifting keel.

http://www.ykboats.co.uk/Ykhome.htm

 

[Penton Hooker]

I have my ideal, a boat that sails more like a keel boat than a dinghy, but has the advantages of a plate for ditch crawling. She's an Honnor Marine built Drascombe Longboat. Not quite standard though, she has booms on both mizzen and mainsail. Can match and even outsail a Squib. Big cockpit for the family, quite capable of being sailed single-handed though. Competent sea-boat, probably more so than similar 'character' day boats, especially in a blow.

 

[NealB]

I'd suggest the Hunter 490 .......designed by the genius, Oliver Lee.

Just delightful to sail.

Cosy little cabin.

Tows very easily behind a 1.4L Fiesta.

Even Seajet might approve.....she's very much a scaled down Anderson 22!

 

[ianat182]

For the best of both worlds you would be unlikely to beat a 17ft Wildfire dinghy designed by O'day and Ian Proctor.This has a fin keel as a moulded hollow section which is placed in the hull as a daggerboard,into this keel are placed bags of lead shot to 250 lbs total.The keel slot is a NASA section to match the keel shape. The boat sails like a dream and is very very fast, pretty much un-capsizeable and can safely be left on a mooring. If memory serves it was also self draining through transom flaps. There are not a lot of them about so may be a cherished ownership. The two designers' racing pedigree for racing dinghies and small cruisers should be sufficient proof of performance to be expected. The dinghy is stable enough to provide room for an overnight camping stay and removing the ballast and keel produces a flat hull that can be rolled on fenders or inflatable rollers up on to a beach without damaging the hull. The launch from a trailer similarly can be done in the shallows adding the ballast and keel after launching. Of course as a dinghy sailor you now have to be aware that a grounding or mooring snarl up will stop the boat dead - quickly!!!


ianat182

 

[Searush]

Stuff like Uffa's Flying Fifteen is a nightmare to launch. You have to wade chest deep to get her off the trailer. You'd need to add the cost of a couple of dry suits to your gear.

Just get a small centreboarder with a cabin & be done with it!!!

 

[Greenheart]

All good suggestions and advice, thank you.

I know a centreboarder would suit my style of use best; I only looked at Flying 15s because there are always a good few available, at minimal cost. I actually like the old Westerly Nimrod for its compact proportions and versatility. But does their age lead to problems, now?

 

[DJE]

Hawk 20?

 

[dylanwinter]

nimrod

All good suggestions and advice, thank you.

I know a centreboarder would suit my style of use best; I only looked at Flying 15s because there are always a good few available, at minimal cost. I actually like the old Westerly Nimrod for its compact proportions and versatility. But does their age lead to problems, now?

ideal for you

easy to launch

motors brilliantly

buy one

enjoy it

Dylan

 

[Greenheart]

Hawk 20?

Hmm...so many good things about the Hawk...roomy, rugged, self-righting, low maintenance, not worryingly antique...

...why don't I want one?

Perhaps in the back of my mind, I'm remembering that for the £12K they cost, I might have a clean Westerly Centaur...

Thanks Dylan, good to know you approve of the Nimrod.

Anybody got horror stories to illustrate their limits/construction issues?

 

[Searush]

What's to go wrong with a Nimrod that can't be fixed quite eaily?

Engine? get another cheap o/b
Centreboard? make a new one yourself
Centreboard case? seal it & strengthen it
Sails/ spars/ rig? no different from any other small boat.

My boat was made in 1973 & is much bigger, so stresses are greater. She has no serious issues since I replaced the engine. There is a strong chance with a Nimrod that it has sat on the trailer in a driveway or yard for much of its life.

 

[Greenheart]

That sounds better and better, cheers.

How about the Nimrod's lifespan? The newest example must be over forty year old, now. Granted four decades on a trailer won't have caused osmosis - one hopes - but maybe there are other stresses that come to light after so long? Obviously I'm hoping not...

...and I guess the Nimrod isn't any more stressed than the biggest dinghies, probably less so.

I think I'm in love again...mature, sprightly lady with a small behind.

 

[Kelpie]

So you came into this thread wanting a keel, and left with a lid.
It's good to be open minded sometimes!

Is there a modern equivalent of the Nimrod? I was wondering if the Elan 210 might fit the bill but I think it's considerably larger, and double the weight.

 

[Greenheart]

It's good to be open minded sometimes!

I'm also empty-walleted, which rather restricts me to noncommittal planning. I won't hold back when the chequebook allows.

Later small centreboard cruisers seemed to get much cleverer & costlier - like the Swift 18. I would still be happy with a dinghy...getting ambitious (and thereby delaying my launch date) doesn't make sense. Particularly as the Nimrod appears to fit the bill exactly.

So, I'll probably end up in a £250 rotting GP14...

 

[Searush]

I'm also empty-walleted, which rather restricts me to noncommittal planning. I won't hold back when the chequebook allows.

Later small centreboard cruisers seemed to get much cleverer & costlier - like the Swift 18. I would still be happy with a dinghy...getting ambitious (and thereby delaying my launch date) doesn't make sense. Particularly as the Nimrod appears to fit the bill exactly.

So, I'll probably end up in a £250 rotting GP14...

I didn't spend a great deal more than that on my 1959 GP14 mk1 woodie in good condition & with a decent (& recent) combi trailer.

 

[dylanwinter]

Nimrod

no worries

Nimrod was built befor ethey invented Osmosis

it ticks every box

big cocpcpit

cabin to hide from the rain

modest rig - just like a dinghy

easy to get at outboard position

I was thinking about a Nimrod for my retirement boat

buy one as soon as possible

Dylan