The ideal blue water yacht

Okay I’ll offer an actual suggestion (aside from our Jen Voyage, which I’ll always maintain was our best option within budget...)

Hylas 44. Frers design, encapsulated lead keel, skeg rudder, factory a/c, freezer, washing machine, etc., loads of tankage, reasonably sheltered for a centre cockpit, look gorgeous, Taiwanese build quality (think Grand Banks), and no coffin berths in sight.

image-1598998797783.jpg


My family cruised one in Far East/SE Asia very successfully in late ‘90s/00s and it took all the abuse and incompetence that us and the S China Sea could throw at it.
 
Wansworth said:
That doesn’t hold water,going towidward could be essential
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Agree, but how well must it do that?
A ketch, supposedly the epitome of oceangoing prowess, is only about 80% as effective to windward as a sloop.
A cutter about 90% or so.
A schooner only 70%.
To be sure, utmost windward ability in a racer is paramount and herein lies the general fixation with performance on this point of sail.
 
Some ability to return upwind from your trade wind departure point because something or someone is broken needs to be considered. I'm by no means alone in having experience of this!
 
skipmac said:
The biggest reasons, they tend to be slow and don't point well at all.
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If you had said yours was slow then that's fair enough but to suggest that applys to all long keels is incorrect.
Mine of 28 yrs ownership lives to sail to windward . Can often point higher and faster than some larger awb in 12 knts wind.
Solent sailing always seem to involve lots of windward work .
Once on a beam reach I can't compete.
If I let go of the helm with barely a few degrees on the rudder the boat sails itself.
Turning in confined spaces is easy, opposite full lock to the prop walk then thrusts of forwards and reverse spins the boat on the spot.
All boats of one type are obviously not the same.

As for bavaria build quality I saw one t bone a 4m wide marina main walkway around 4-5knts and it totally bent the chassis. The bavaria just bounced off and had no visible damage whatsoever other than a scuff mark. The boats throttle control failed and had to make the choice of hitting another boat or the pontoon .

What makes a good blue water boat? Bigger the better.
We have the vendee yachts going as fast as possible but getting heavily beaten in the process .
The opposite end must be a long keel in no rush but nearly sailing itself with a very sea kindly motion .
Everything else is a person's choice somewhere in between the two.
 
pvb said:
No, it's all to do with coopec's distorted ideas and knocking Bavarias because I've got one! Rogershaw has just jumped on the colonials' bandwagon to support coopec, who thankfully is probably asleep now, dreaming of the excitement - many years hence - of finally dragging his boat out of his garden and introducing it to water.
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Geeez!! You are admitting to owning a Bavaria yacht:rolleyes: WOW!! (Most people would be more discreet)

I've often wondered why you never go out sailing (smart move) :D
 
coopec said:
Geeez!! You are admitting to owning a Bavaria yacht:rolleyes: WOW!! (Most people would be more discreet)

I've often wondered why you never go out sailing (smart move) :D
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Give it a rest. :sleep:

I thought you said you were leaving, done with PBO ?

Other forum give you a hard time, or just back to troll ?

I think most of us are fed up with hearing how superior your lawn mower boat is.
 
PaulRainbow said:
Give it a rest. :sleep:

I thought you said you were leaving, done with PBO ?

Other forum give you a hard time, or just back to troll ?

I think most of us are fed up with hearing how superior your lawn mower boat is.
Click to expand...

Do you still insist fiberglass is UV stable? ?
 
Rappey said:
If you had said yours was slow then that's fair enough but to suggest that applys to all long keels is incorrect.
Mine of 28 yrs ownership lives to sail to windward . Can often point higher and faster than some larger awb in 12 knts wind.
Solent sailing always seem to involve lots of windward work .
Once on a beam reach I can't compete.
If I let go of the helm with barely a few degrees on the rudder the boat sails itself.
Turning in confined spaces is easy, opposite full lock to the prop walk then thrusts of forwards and reverse spins the boat on the spot.
All boats of one type are obviously not the same.

As for bavaria build quality I saw one t bone a 4m wide marina main walkway around 4-5knts and it totally bent the chassis. The bavaria just bounced off and had no visible damage whatsoever other than a scuff mark. The boats throttle control failed and had to make the choice of hitting another boat or the pontoon .

What makes a good blue water boat? Bigger the better.
We have the vendee yachts going as fast as possible but getting heavily beaten in the process .
The opposite end must be a long keel in no rush but nearly sailing itself with a very sea kindly motion .
Everything else is a person's choice somewhere in between the two.
Click to expand...

I did try to word my opinion in such a way as to indicate not all long keel boats are the same IE "they tend to" and similar. Obviously like any generality the statements might be generally true but not always try. I think my experiences are generally true but certainly not in every single example.

I do have one question, does your full keel extend all the way forward or is there a cutaway in front so the keel drops down somewhere farther aft of the stem. That does have a significant effect on handling.

Regarding pointing close to the wind, I guess it could point better than a fat AWB designed for charter trade but I am skeptical that a long, full keel will point as close as a airfoil section deep fin.
 
FlyingGoose said:
Listen to these wise words ,
I have a large keeled heavy displacement boat from the 70s
She does not go to wind AT all
She slows
And a tractor at three point turns
But she is nice in heavy weather ,
And I love her so there ;)
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Like the old sailors said, different ships, different long splices.

Bottom line, no boat is perfect for all things nor for all people and it follows that all boats are a compromise of one sort or another. I like my boat for what I bought it for but would be dismal as a racer. If we all had the same preferences and owned the same boat it would be quite a boring world and what would sailors have to talk about when watching the sun go down with the other sailors?
 
FlyingGoose said:
Listen to these wise words ,
I have a large keeled heavy displacement boat from the 70s
She does not go to wind AT all
She slows
And a tractor at three point turns
But she is nice in heavy weather ,
And I love her so there ;)
Click to expand...

I thought most yachts on extended cruises sail free (downwind) anyway?
 
Laminar Flow said:
Agree, but how well must it do that?
A ketch, supposedly the epitome of oceangoing prowess, is only about 80% as effective to windward as a sloop.
A cutter about 90% or so.
A schooner only 70%.
To be sure, utmost windward ability in a racer is paramount and herein lies the general fixation with performance on this point of sail.
Click to expand...
I have a bluewater boat. Fin and skeg ketch. Our friends have the identical hull rigged as a sloop. Windward performance between the two boats in anything upwards of 10kts is identical. Their boat has a mast that is 2ft taller and a boom that is 3ft longer. Their boat is rigged as in mast furling, ours is slab reefing. We have a folding prop, theirs is fixed. Below 10kts to windward they are faster as they carry more windward sail. Off the wind we are quicker.
Being 7’2” draft helps our windward performance greatly when the conditions get nasty. By comparison with many boats we come across we out perform them and out point them. I guess if a ketch is shallow draft, fixed prop, inmast reefing and inefficient hull shape, then dont expect to beat off a lee shore in a blow. I know we can
 
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