The Horse Sand can catch you out

[RivalRedwing]

I find the Dutch who get this far to be very competent sailors, not renown for running into sandbanks that are well marked on charts, in a river, with lots of additional info (already) available to the Mk 1 eyeball. Anway they are far more likely to head for Harwich / Orwell first, no constraint on the entrance.

 

[Tradewinds]

Ah yes the Dutch . . .

 

[Concerto]

Ah yes the Dutch . . .

View attachment 162366

That is an unusual rudder arrangement. Is it a skeg and rudder or two rudders inline?

 

[RivalRedwing]

I remeber that one ;-) a bit too aspirational

 

[Major_Clanger]

Perhaps I am missing some thing. There is buoyage at the entrance to the river, there is loads of buoyage further up the river but nothing to draw attention to this big sand bank. So you have sailed over from Holland, entered the river carefully studying your chart plotter and got up as far as Woodbridge following all the red can buoys. You then turn around and follow all the red can buoys back and when you can see Bawdsey you run slap bang into a sandbank covered by 2" water. It does not make any sense to me why this hazard is unmarked

But the sand IS marked..... It's marked by the fact there are plenty of moorings all around it but a sudden and total lack on it. It's marked by confused and broken water (except at or near HW admittedly). It's marked on paper charts. It's marked on plotters. It's been there for centuries so even appears on completely out-of-date charts.

Without any disrespect intended to the errant yachtsman, there has to be a point where spoon-feeding stops and seamanship/common sense take over.

 

[tillergirl]

Everyone knows I 'ain't no fan' of Navionics but even that is clear:

 

[Leighb]

Also if you are coming down river at the North end of the moorings there is a large red/orange buoy which from any distance resembles a Port hand navigation mark, this would prompt you to leave it to starboard. It is in fact a large mooring buoy, but it does help one avoid the dodgy area with NO MOORINGS amongst all the moorings.

 

[shanemax]

But the sand IS marked..... It's marked by the fact there are plenty of moorings all around it but a sudden and total lack on it. It's marked by confused and broken water (except at or near HW admittedly). It's marked on paper charts. It's marked on plotters. It's been there for centuries so even appears on completely out-of-date charts.

Without any disrespect intended to the errant yachtsman, there has to be a point where spoon-feeding stops and seamanship/common sense take over.

OK majorclanger........what went wrong here, obviously experienced yachtman, especially the fin keel boys who seem to look down their noses at anybody with any thing else. They all obviously did a passage plan,, checked their charts, checked tides, took into account the wind, checked HHA live data to see if there was a positive or negative surge etc etc It is a clearly marked channel with cautions in the pilot book. I wonder how many other boats, on this day, nearly ran aground, turned back or turned around. That is why I am in favour of as much buoyage help as possible because even clearly marking channels and experienced sailors UCK UP. Your thoughts please
This is a 10 minute film. If you do not wish to watch it all roll forward for 6 minutes and watch from there.
GO TO "You Tube".......KEEP TURNING LEFT Season 1 Film 20. Film Sailing the Walton Backwaters

 

[Major_Clanger]

OK majorclanger........what went wrong here, obviously experienced yachtman, especially the fin keel boys who seem to look down their noses at anybody with any thing else. They all obviously did a passage plan,, checked their charts, checked tides, took into account the wind, checked HHA live data to see if there was a positive or negative surge etc etc It is a clearly marked channel with cautions in the pilot book. I wonder how many other boats, on this day, nearly ran aground, turned back or turned around. That is why I am in favour of as much buoyage help as possible because even clearly marking channels and experienced sailors UCK UP. Your thoughts please
This is a 10 minute film. If you do not wish to watch it all roll forward for 6 minutes and watch from there.
GO TO "You Tube".......KEEP TURNING LEFT Season 1 Film 20. Film Sailing the Walton Backwaters

What a lovely film, I like the narrator's style......

Absolutely no idea why they were aground. I've not been into the Backwaters since the very early 90s, and that was with a sailing barge. I'd assume that being fin keelers, they hadn't taken the ground deliberately, but who knows.

I do hope you don't think I'm being sanctimonious, as I'm really not trying to be. It just strikes me that the sea around the UK is currently free of huge swathes of daft regulation, and we should all be very grateful for that. I believe in taking responsibility for oneself (especially on a boat). The Mk.1 eyeball, in conjunction with common sense can tell someone far more than a load of buoys in an area where I'd argue they're not needed. Using Horse Sand as an example; let's say it was marked with cardinals. Well then passing boats would no longer need to notice the lack of moorings, the behaviour of the water and all the other little nuances that mark the sand's presence. The signposts would negate the need for shrewd observation and self reliance.

Perhaps I'm not making my point very well, but the more we encourage the authorities to hold our hand, then the more freedom at sea we'll lose forever. I've made embarrassing cock-ups all over the Thames estuary, gone aground many times (especially when racing) and sure I will do again, so there's no piousness intended when I say that if someone doesn't have the common sense to work out Horse Sand is there, then they probably shouldn't be afloat (or aground!).

 

[johnalison]

I find the Dutch who get this far to be very competent sailors, not renown for running into sandbanks that are well marked on charts, in a river, with lots of additional info (already) available to the Mk 1 eyeball. Anway they are far more likely to head for Harwich / Orwell first, no constraint on the entrance.

I would say that on the whole sailors who venture away from home are more competent than the ones who stay at home. In general, I have great respect for German sailors, but there is, or was, a large group who didn't go to sea but kept their boats around the Ijselmeer, and they had a reputation for being pretty hopeless. Since their Baltic coast has opened up, I think that many of this group have moved to those waters instead. One of the amusements abroad is watching the locals making a mess of things, which adds a balance the the usual chaos one observes in home waters.

 

[shanemax]

What a lovely film, I like the narrator's style......

Absolutely no idea why they were aground. I've not been into the Backwaters since the very early 90s, and that was with a sailing barge. I'd assume that being fin keelers, they hadn't taken the ground deliberately, but who knows.

I do hope you don't think I'm being sanctimonious, as I'm really not trying to be. It just strikes me that the sea around the UK is currently free of huge swathes of daft regulation, and we should all be very grateful for that. I believe in taking responsibility for oneself (especially on a boat). The Mk.1 eyeball, in conjunction with common sense can tell someone far more than a load of buoys in an area where I'd argue they're not needed. Using Horse Sand as an example; let's say it was marked with cardinals. Well then passing boats would no longer need to notice the lack of moorings, the behaviour of the water and all the other little nuances that mark the sand's presence. The signposts would negate the need for shrewd observation and self reliance.

Perhaps I'm not making my point very well, but the more we encourage the authorities to hold our hand, then the more freedom at sea we'll lose forever. I've made embarrassing cock-ups all over the Thames estuary, gone aground many times (especially when racing) and sure I will do again, so there's no piousness intended when I say that if someone doesn't have the common sense to work out Horse Sand is there, then they probably shouldn't be afloat (or aground!).

If you are anti regulation then we agree. I often say there are no Police, no Traffic Wardens and few cameras out on the water and as long as you are sensible you can come and go, and travel where you like. I try to spend 4 days away and 3 days at home for each week of the summer from June/Sept I haven't done quite so well this year as I am suffering from long covid which takes away your energy and breath . This delayed me getting the boat prepared for the season but I am pleased to be off again tomorrow for 3-4 days. If you like these films the producer has made about 100 and lives near the Deben and keeps a boat moored on the Deben. The guy has circled the UK and made a short film at every stop. Good winter viewing.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Well that started somthing

 

[bluerm166]

The idea of buoyage is surely that it gives positive guidance without recourse to any pilot notes or intuition.
I would expect a red can at both ends of the sand and assume that there is not because there is little or no commercial traffic.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I went up to Woodbridge a few years ago, and found the area round the Horse Sand confusing. The channel is well marked with buoys elsewhere; why not there?

For those who say the absence of moorings is a clue, I'd say that I expect a channel to be left clear, too! So the absence of moorings could indicate the channel...

 

[PeterWright]

For those with longer memories, the Horse Sand did for many years have a port hand buoy to push you over to the NE side of the river, but it was discontinued. If I remember correctly, it was when, following one of the regular shifts of the bar, a buoy was sought to put off the beach on the Felixstowe Ferry side to give visitors an aiming point having crossed the bar itself. I always thought it served a more important purpose as the Horse Sand buoy.

Peter.