The Future of our Hobby

bedouin said:
The problem of course is that the use of such a product is not massively scaleable without having its own impact. Imagine what would happen if we converted all the land currently used to grow food into growing crops for "biodiesel"
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That is a concern.
 
Crown Oil say HVO is about 20p per litre above the cost of ordinary diesel.
That's subject to the same duty and vat as mineral diesel it seems .

So would people pay that voluntarily ?
 
To me, the obvious problem with battery power is the charging. Not so much the time and cables but the practicality. It's fine inland or if you dayboat or go from marina to marina. Here in darkest Cornwall, as with many other places, boats are kept on moorings and are used to go to other moorings or anchorages. No shore power, no charging. No obvious alternative at the mo.
 
I saw an article in MBY about the Sealence Deepspeed, a really ingenious system that combines both the motor and propulsion into a single underwater waterjet. Obviously that frees up the space normally taken up by the engines and fuel tanks. Battery packs can be organised to maximise accommodation. Add an optimised generator to charge the batteries, maybe a few photovoltaic panels and problem solved!
 
Farmer Piles said:
To me, the obvious problem with battery power is the charging. Not so much the time and cables but the practicality. It's fine inland or if you dayboat or go from marina to marina. Here in darkest Cornwall, as with many other places, boats are kept on moorings and are used to go to other moorings or anchorages. No shore power, no charging. No obvious alternative at the mo.
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Lithium ion life4po plus solar.

prices are coming down, new market entrants will drive competitive action.
 
All the major boat constructers have been hiding behind the curtain for years.
When did you ever see anything on a placard underneath that monster pile of shiney glassfibre at Excel , that even suggested that it might have fuel tank on board.
In the past they obviously assumed that the amount of fuel guzzled by the vessel was something that was somebody elses problem, mainly the buyer who was presumably well able to afford the problem.
At some point the outside world was going to make it the constructors problem.
Each new boat to have a MPG certificate and a levy on each sale perhaps even an annual TAX depending on its fuel economy.
We have got it sorted on motor vehicles,boats should be a piece of cake.
Handy way of raising a few COVID quid without upsetting the voters too much ?
 
oldgit said:
All the major boat constructers have been hiding behind the curtain for years.
When did you ever see anything on a placard underneath that monster pile of shiney glassfibre at Excel , that even suggested that it might have fuel tank on board.
In the past they obviously assumed that the amount of fuel guzzled by the vessel was something that was somebody elses problem, mainly the buyer who was presumably well able to afford the problem.
At some point the outside world was going to make it the constructors problem.
Each new boat to have a MPG certificate and a levy on each sale perhaps even an annual TAX depending on its fuel economy.
We have got it sorted on motor vehicles,boats should be a piece of cake.
Handy way of raising a few COVID quid without upsetting the voters too much ?
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giphy.gif
 
The (relatively) easier way to carry hydrogen - everyone’s dream green fuel - in a boat is as ammonia. Last week a serious plan was announced in Norway for a tanker to carry “green” ammonia (made from hydrogen made by reducing water using electricity from hydro power or wind power - Norway has been exporting this for over a century) which will herself be powered by fuel cells using green ammonia. The ship is meant to be in service in 2014.

This might be a possibility?
 
Methane is in most respects worse than diesel. It is a far worse greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, and when used in an engine quite a lot of it (up to 8%) passes through the engine unburned. It needs to be stored under high pressure so the weight of the tanks is considerable and its energy density is much less so you need about twice as much of it for the same range.
 
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The problem with electric is energy density. So it will be limited to displacement boats, small boats and perhaps some faster foiling ones. For the rest we have diesel and greenhouse gas emissions from leisure vessels is bound to be minimal given they spend almost all of their time switched off.

Finally I would argue that boating is predominantly a pastime of the wealthy and the world is run for and by wealthy people (with minor bones thrown to others at times for expediency reasons) so no need to worry.
 
bedouin said:
The problem of course is that the use of such a product is not massively scaleable without having its own impact. Imagine what would happen if we converted all the land currently used to grow food into growing crops for "biodiesel"

We really need something that can be created using an industrial process - perhaps even converting electricity into a liquid fuel. Such processes do exist but not clear if they are economically viable.
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They will become so. F1 is looking to be powered by synthetic fuel, they are good at getting things done well and quickly.
 
gordmac said:
They will become so. F1 is looking to be powered by synthetic fuel, they are good at getting things done well and quickly.
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But not cheaply or scaleably :)

Lots of solutions that will work for F1 won't be feasible for Aviation/Commercial shipping or even leisure boating.
 
In the longer term it will. Look at wind power, originally a lot more expensive than fossil fuels, now probably cheaper. Taxes or subsidies are used to "persuade" people until the technology is improved.
F1 has a concentration of the best brains in the business, if they put their mind to it they will quickly solve the issues.
 
I am amazed Methanol hasn't been done. It can be "grown" has low(er) CO2 implications and a very high octane and energy density.

Most petrol engines will run on it with minimal adjustment (some fuel lines need replacing tho) - but it never seems to have taken off.

I have also run loads of cars on LPG - brilliant, and I love it, I also converted the old boat to it - but supply never took off and the boat conversion was not good (the car conversions were way better).

Currently still about 60-70p per litre so makes running a V8 a lot more affordable.
 
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