RobWales
Well-Known Member
If required I can sort some AO printing for you guys.
The Ford to Cummins Conversion Thread
- Thread starter MYStargazer
- Start date
If required I can sort some AO printing for you guys.
MYStargazer
Well-Known Member
That's an extremely kind offer - thanks!
MYStargazer
Well-Known Member
Time for an update...
After much deliberation (http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?369771-The-Ford-to-Cummins-Conversion-Thread/page18), I decided that the day/polishing fuel tank (actually, I discovered, two separate tanks) must go. It didn’t add much in terms of volume. As it was always full and under pressure, any small leaks in the seals or pipe joins would weep continuously (which they had been) making the whole boat stink of diesel. As the inspection plates were covered by a mass of brazed pipes for fuel in, fuel out, fuel return and breathers, I wondered how one was supposed to remove the pipes to clean the tank. In fact, the compression fittings weren’t going to budge, and may never have been undone. This wasn’t going to be pretty.
I cut the fuel supply off from the main tanks, and some fuel sucked out of the day/polishing tank. There was no other way than cutting the pipes, and they were tougher than they looked. So I just bent them up and down until they failed…
The nuts on the two tank covers came off easily, and the tank covers themselves came up with just a couple of screwdrivers…
The tank covers were sealed with cork gaskets. I’d be surprised if they were ever 100% leak-proof…
Here’s the top of the fuel pick-up pipe, made of copper with a seemingly hand-bent curve at the bottom…
With most of the fuel pumped out, you can see quite a bit of black sludge. There was 2-3mm on most surfaces. The fuel itself was darker and darker towards the bottom…
Here’s a sample of the sludge (fuel bug?) scraped off with a piece of plastic…
Unsurprisingly, the tank looked like it had never been cleaned. If I had ever needed to clean out the tank out, in a foreign port, on a weekend, looking for supplies to re-braze the pipe, it would have been a nightmare.
As there are there are no skin fittings here, I think I may use this space for battery storage, with perhaps a waterproof cover and certainly a vent leading to a high point up on the topsides.
After much deliberation (http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?369771-The-Ford-to-Cummins-Conversion-Thread/page18), I decided that the day/polishing fuel tank (actually, I discovered, two separate tanks) must go. It didn’t add much in terms of volume. As it was always full and under pressure, any small leaks in the seals or pipe joins would weep continuously (which they had been) making the whole boat stink of diesel. As the inspection plates were covered by a mass of brazed pipes for fuel in, fuel out, fuel return and breathers, I wondered how one was supposed to remove the pipes to clean the tank. In fact, the compression fittings weren’t going to budge, and may never have been undone. This wasn’t going to be pretty.
I cut the fuel supply off from the main tanks, and some fuel sucked out of the day/polishing tank. There was no other way than cutting the pipes, and they were tougher than they looked. So I just bent them up and down until they failed…
The nuts on the two tank covers came off easily, and the tank covers themselves came up with just a couple of screwdrivers…
The tank covers were sealed with cork gaskets. I’d be surprised if they were ever 100% leak-proof…
Here’s the top of the fuel pick-up pipe, made of copper with a seemingly hand-bent curve at the bottom…
With most of the fuel pumped out, you can see quite a bit of black sludge. There was 2-3mm on most surfaces. The fuel itself was darker and darker towards the bottom…
Here’s a sample of the sludge (fuel bug?) scraped off with a piece of plastic…
Unsurprisingly, the tank looked like it had never been cleaned. If I had ever needed to clean out the tank out, in a foreign port, on a weekend, looking for supplies to re-braze the pipe, it would have been a nightmare.
As there are there are no skin fittings here, I think I may use this space for battery storage, with perhaps a waterproof cover and certainly a vent leading to a high point up on the topsides.
Trundlebug
Well-Known Member
I can smell it from here.
Yeuch! Not a pleasant job at all.
FWIW I think you've made the right decision, especially now we've seen inside. Good idea to use this space for batteries, also helps to keep the C of G low.
Are you planning to fit a small bilge pump in there?
Yeuch! Not a pleasant job at all.
FWIW I think you've made the right decision, especially now we've seen inside. Good idea to use this space for batteries, also helps to keep the C of G low.
Are you planning to fit a small bilge pump in there?
MYStargazer
Well-Known Member
It was a filthy, filthy job. I've still not completed the cleanup but already the smell seems to have nearly all gone.
I'm thinking of fitting new floors into these spaces, with inspection hatches, on top of which the batteries will fit. There may be space for toolbox storage as well.
I'll not put bilge pumps under the floors as these spaces will be quite small and there's no easy way for water to leak in.
I'm thinking of fitting new floors into these spaces, with inspection hatches, on top of which the batteries will fit. There may be space for toolbox storage as well.
I'll not put bilge pumps under the floors as these spaces will be quite small and there's no easy way for water to leak in.
MYStargazer
Well-Known Member
Bedtime!
As the engine beds were badly affected by (surface only??) rust, I decided, having got this far, that the best approach would be to remove them completely, and have them shot-blasted. They can then be placed back into a pristine, white engine compartment, ready for the new engines.
The beds are made from mild steel. I thought for a long time they were cut-down RSJs, but they seem to have been made for this boat and the old Ford engines.
They are held in place by a total of 32 bolts. I thoughts these would come undone quite easily. Some look to have been cross-threaded…
They may not have ever been moved in 40 years. Only one has sheered, but every quarter turn of every bolt is a battle. Eventually, I got the first piece off.
What’s underneath?! I was expecting a big lump of wood, but instead, there’s what appears to be steel, covered in a thin layer of fibreglass (looks like rust flakes in the photo but isn’t).
Anyone got any ideas what’s underneath? How are the nuts (?) held captive?
> Not sure what to coat them with, but contenders include:
> Galvanising (this could be done by the same place which is doing the shotblasting)
> Red oxide primer (is this really the best solution in this day and age?)
> Epoxy primer, followed by a suitable topcoat
> Epoxy mastic (http://www.rust.co.uk/products/category/28117/epoxy-mastic-rust-proofing-chassis-paint/#)
> Powder coating
> PQR-15
Might it be worth cutting a piece of, say, 3mm rubber sheet to fit like a gasket between the steel of the engine beds and the longitudinal?
The engine mounts look like they can be cleaned up and used again (assuming the rubber’s okay – I’ve not checked yet). I might have them shot-blasted and maybe galvanised at the same time as the engine beds.
As the engine beds were badly affected by (surface only??) rust, I decided, having got this far, that the best approach would be to remove them completely, and have them shot-blasted. They can then be placed back into a pristine, white engine compartment, ready for the new engines.
The beds are made from mild steel. I thought for a long time they were cut-down RSJs, but they seem to have been made for this boat and the old Ford engines.
They are held in place by a total of 32 bolts. I thoughts these would come undone quite easily. Some look to have been cross-threaded…
They may not have ever been moved in 40 years. Only one has sheered, but every quarter turn of every bolt is a battle. Eventually, I got the first piece off.
What’s underneath?! I was expecting a big lump of wood, but instead, there’s what appears to be steel, covered in a thin layer of fibreglass (looks like rust flakes in the photo but isn’t).
Anyone got any ideas what’s underneath? How are the nuts (?) held captive?
> Not sure what to coat them with, but contenders include:
> Galvanising (this could be done by the same place which is doing the shotblasting)
> Red oxide primer (is this really the best solution in this day and age?)
> Epoxy primer, followed by a suitable topcoat
> Epoxy mastic (http://www.rust.co.uk/products/category/28117/epoxy-mastic-rust-proofing-chassis-paint/#)
> Powder coating
> PQR-15
Might it be worth cutting a piece of, say, 3mm rubber sheet to fit like a gasket between the steel of the engine beds and the longitudinal?
The engine mounts look like they can be cleaned up and used again (assuming the rubber’s okay – I’ve not checked yet). I might have them shot-blasted and maybe galvanised at the same time as the engine beds.
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Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
Benjamin,
Invest in a set of new mountings from R&D please.
Invest in a set of new mountings from R&D please.
Keith-i
Well-Known Member
I had my engine rails grit blasted and then I painted them with two pack epoxy. Doing well 4 years on. Can touch up any damage fairly easily too. The old engine mounts got blasted as well and came up good.
MYStargazer
Well-Known Member
I wish you hadn't that said, Paul!!!
What do they do (http://www.randdmarine.com/enginem.asp) that my current ones don't? Is it just that times have moved on and materials/designs improve?
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MYStargazer
Well-Known Member
Great minds (think up obvious solutions...)
And here's a plate I just stumbled on by chance...
Looks a bit beefier than my sketch, but the shape's there.
I'm currently removing all the paint from the engine compartment in preparation for flow coating. It's increadibly messy (and slow) but well worth doing.
Here’s my cunning plan. It’s an adapter plate, laser cut from a single sheet of 8mm(?) mild steel, but the shape incorporates flaps at the side to which steel angles are bolted. The ovals allow for vertical adjustment, while similar ovals in the bottom of the steel angles allow for lateral adjustment. Here’s a very rough sketch:
What do you think, or is it a case of "It's a **** idea, and for that reason, I'm ooot!"...?!
And here's a plate I just stumbled on by chance...
Looks a bit beefier than my sketch, but the shape's there.
I'm currently removing all the paint from the engine compartment in preparation for flow coating. It's increadibly messy (and slow) but well worth doing.
rosssavage
Well-Known Member
What he said. Don't do ALL that work and not replace them!!!
It will never be easier than when the engines are already out...
MYStargazer
Well-Known Member
I'm still pondering that one - given their expense. How would the difference become evident? What's wrong with just using the old ones?
rosssavage
Well-Known Member
To be honest, I don't know how you test them.
I do know (from personal, bitter experience..) that they do fail! My boat was 19 yrs old when I found three of my eight had failed. I found this out when the stbd engine went out of alignment at 18kts in a lumpy sea, and the prop shaft parted company with the gearbox.
I subsequently renewed all eight (£2k for new mounts) but I then had to change them without lifting the engines. It can be done (I've done it) but I'd far sooner do it with the engines out!
Yes, fair wedge, but I'd do it. Once bitten etc...
I do know (from personal, bitter experience..) that they do fail! My boat was 19 yrs old when I found three of my eight had failed. I found this out when the stbd engine went out of alignment at 18kts in a lumpy sea, and the prop shaft parted company with the gearbox.
I subsequently renewed all eight (£2k for new mounts) but I then had to change them without lifting the engines. It can be done (I've done it) but I'd far sooner do it with the engines out!
Yes, fair wedge, but I'd do it. Once bitten etc...
MYStargazer
Well-Known Member
I never knew they could fail! I do now...
I think I need to examine mine a little further. It looks like they have a plate to hold the rubber part in place. If so, this may mean that in the event of failure the engine would vibrate but wouldn't be able to part with the engine beds. It makes sense to try to inspect the rubber part for any obvious failings first.
I think I need to examine mine a little further. It looks like they have a plate to hold the rubber part in place. If so, this may mean that in the event of failure the engine would vibrate but wouldn't be able to part with the engine beds. It makes sense to try to inspect the rubber part for any obvious failings first.
Dick Atcherley
Well-Known Member
Any update to this riveting tale? :encouragement:
