The Dinghies are out of control

[BarryH]

When I was a lad I used to sail a dinghy. Jolly good fun it was too. Now I'm older and a family man so Dinghy sailing days are well and truely over.
What I have noticed these days are that dinghy sailors have very little regard for other water users. It wasn't like that in my day sailing them. You gave other boats, which were normally bigger than you, the room they needed. Todays dinghy sailors seem to have little regard or respect for other water users. They tend to leave it until the last minute before tacking. I've even had one approach me from behind in Poole. He was the overtaking vessel. I was doing 4 knots, he must have been doing at least 10 . The barefaced cheek of the chap. I was in a shallow channel and he wanted ME to get out of HIS way.
Is this the norm of dinghy sailors nowdays. Are they all blinkered so as to only see their end goal. I think the clubs have a lot to answer for.
I would go as far as saying that they are the wind powered equal to PWC riders. With that in mind should they not be segregated to their own zones the way PWC riders are.
I'm waitng for the day that one of them hits my boat. Its going to happen. Poole is now over run with these wind powered hooligans. PHC has zoned off PWC's to the north side of Brownsea and south of the main channel. Something has got to be done. The sailors show little regard for colregs, seamanship and can be down right arrogant.
The situatuation has got slowly worse over the years. Theres now hoards of the things coming from Rockley at the weekends.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for people learning to sail and encourage my own kids to the point where I'm in the market for something like a Mirror for them. I only hope that they have regard for other water users and use the thing in a safe and seaman (woman) like way when they are out on the water
So thought s on this wind powered menace, should they be be "zoned" off as they seem to be the sailing equivilent to PWC's

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Moose]

I agree entirely, the problems you have outlined in Poole are just as bad, if not worse in Chichester.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BrendanS]

I thought they already were 'zoned off ' ?
Especially when they organise races.

The zones consist on the whole of any main channel where they can cause maximum irritation and annoyance.


<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."

 

[Dominic]

They don´t know about CollRegs

The simple answer is that they are racing, and they have no knowledge of CollRegs.

They do not realise that these rule apply to all vessels.

Let them impact ! It will sharpen them up.

(I speak as one who has been anchored in a harbour and had a number of small children in Optimists strike me and been blown alongside. In each case I smiled, leant over the side, turned their boats and helped them sail away. I am not always an a**hole.)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Dominic on 03/02/2004 23:08 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[ParaHandy]

dinghys have as much right to be there as you. i don't quite know how you justify that they have no knowledge of the col regs which is what you imply and others state as a fact.

the one abiding fact is that there is an ever growing density of boats in the same area. I grant you that many are young and inexperienced who seem fixated on occupying the same patch of water as us but is it really such a problem to manoeuvre to keep clear?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

Barry I am shocked and surprised at this attitude. We need an enquiry into this behaviour .. however the enquirers will all be powerboaters albeit with slightly different boats and the terms of the enquiry will be whether the depthsounder was actually working properly or not!

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[Dominic]

My Quick Answer Was Wrong

Having read your post I think mine was a complete load of cock and should be re-written.

I have no problem with zooming dinghies. What worries me is that they may not be working to the same set of rules as I am.

I want to be able to sail without causing an injury to others and without having to clean the smears off the paintwork. Also without anyone shaking fists and swearing.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BrendanS]

How do you maneouvre to avoid a fleet of racing dinghies who's sole aim is to win the race, and sod everyone else on the water, and any rules.

You just get enveloped, even if you try to give them a wide berth, and go out of your way to halt and wait awhile as they pass.

Surely they can race in areas other than main channels?

<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."

 

[BarryH]

No no no. You've misunderstood me. I'm not against sailing or nayone one wanting to sail. I'm not even against PWC's. What I'm saying is YES there is a place for dinghies out on the water. BUT dinghy sailors now seem to be as erratic as PWC users. Yes let them be out on the water but give then their own zone in crowded enclosed waters away from main shipping channels and other boats restricted to navigation channels traversing the waters.
Dinghy sailors seem to think that because they can go over the shallow bits so can the bigger boats. I would susspect that half of the helms wouldn't even know the depth if you asked them.
I don't know maybe I'm getting old, it wasn't like that in my day.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[TheBoatman]

Barry
Its not just dinghy sailors that suffer brain death as soon as they are in racing mode. I have seen perfect gentlemen cruisers that would doff their hats to one and all go down exactly the same route when "the gun goes".

It's a pernenial problem that one one can solve?

Colregs are nothing to do with it, they don't count, because "they are racing" if they come across someone out for a jolly, or gentle cruise they are by mere definition not going anywhere quickly and therefore should immediately get out of the way.

I have also noted that in my years of running safety coverage at various events that in close quarters situations helms who would normally give a very wide berth to other water users suddenly want to get within a couple of inches of another boat before they tack, because "there racing".

I believe that it has something to do with the sound of the gun, whilst any sane person would just treat it as a sound signal, racers seem to be shot in the head with it and the result is a normally sane person loses all sense of what is right or wrong, Colregs don't count, and any other vessel in their way it deliberately trying to stop them winning.

One final observation, last season, I was on safety duty and we had cruiser racers mixed up with dinghy racers, there was a lot of shouting going on, you know the normal thing about giving way, which tack a boat was on, and whether the helmsmans parents were married at the point of his conseption etc. when some PWC appeared flying in and out between the fleets when miracle of miracles there was a general consensus between the racers to verbally attack the PWC users.

Such is Life?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BrendanS]

Racing seems to reduce the brain to mush. A few years ago went sailing on a London Sailing Project boat. While we were anchored at Osbourne Bay, listened to coastguard talking to a sinking boat. The guy who had t-boned him responded 'we are racing'
Coastguard told him in no uncertain tones to return to scene and render assistance.. Bet he lost his ticket over that.

Guy was very professional, gave clear co-ordinates and that he had rib ready in water if they had to abandon. Helicopter coud be seen there minutes later lifting people

<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."

 

[snowleopard]

i think dinghy racers are entitled to be upset if a cruiser blunders through their fleet and makes no effort to avoid disrupting the race. as a matter of courtesy i will try to keep clear - if the situation permits. correspondingly i expect them to obey the rules of the road when i am in restricted waters.

the big question then is what to do if they don't play fair? i.e. they are shouting abuse and demanding you put yourself aground to save them going round you? here are my suggestions:

ignore them
listen on vhf M2 and report them to their club
throw used tea bags at them
go for their shrouds with your bolt cutters as they pass
connect your deck wash pump to the holding tank and wash them down.

once while i was moored in portuguese waters, one of their swarms of optimists came past very close. one young lad was paddling sneakily. i reached out and grabbed his masthead bringing him to a stop, much to the delight of his rivals.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[robp]

I think that a problem does exist but it's not always to do with racing, as some mention. It seems as if some instructors or peers, when they first start youngsters off, say "don't worry you have right of way". And that's the way some grow into the sport. I know that the dinghy section in my club teach the kids to allow for larger craft's "RAM", as it were. I think that the problem would lessen if all who were involved with getting kids afloat did the same.

I hasten to add that it's not all youngsters - a guy with his family in a dinghy rammed my towed inflatable a few years ago, whilst I was in a channel. All he had to do was bear away a couple of degrees. He was even on port tack. Bet he's like that on the road, in the supermarket and everywhere though!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[BarryH]

Ok so the general feeling from the posts here is that, Yes, dinghy racing is a menace to the safety and sanity of other water users. Not unlike PWC's.
So bearing in mind that its unlawful and against the law to race cars on the public roads, should it not be unlawful and against maritime law to race on the water. I know its a different kettle of fish, but a paralell can be drawn.

For that matter should not all racing, beit, dinghy, yacht, power, be banned from our coastal waters and confined harbours. If not banned then confined to segregated areas where the only harm that can be done is between themselves.
Theres been more than one occasion where I have left poole only to be confronted, after running the gauntlet with the dingies, a mass of yachts from the "club on the river" converging on one mark. All hell bent on getting there and rounding it first. No matter who's around.
The race/club organosers should be shot for laying the marks so close to a busy area of the Bay/harbour.

Back to one or two points. Yes I do give them a wide berth if at all possible and adhere to the rules and regs etc.
No I wouldn't hinder them in anyway, they're out to enjoy themselves as well.
Yes the waters around our coast is more crowded now than it was when I was a nipper. With this in mind is it not time that a bit of regulation regarding dinghy racing. yacht racing, powerboat racing was introduced for the safety of everyone. Racers and "public" alike.
Should yacht clubs/dinghy clubs have a firm set of rules regarding when and where races can take place and be accountable for breaking these rules.

Just a few thoughts which I hope people of the sailing fraturnity will not take to heart. I still enjoy a sail now nad then!


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[deckham]

Surely one important aspect which has not been commented on is that the traditional courses for dinghy and dayboat races have been more and more obstructed by trots of swinging moorings and jetties to reach low water. Burnham comes to mind. This not the fault of the dinghies. To try to limit dinghies to a cert ain patch ignores the fact that they need different courses for different wind directions, and also that the the bigger dinghies such as Wayfarers are capable of long passages in the right hands. I would dispute dinghysailors don't know the Col-regs. Many mature dinghysailors have also done courses in big boats. However I am all for good manners.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Twister_Ken]

Mad regulations

The trouble with regulations is that they have to be policed. So who is going to do? And who is going to pay them for doing it? You and me.

IMHO a few dinghy sinkings is the answer. After all, these latest hi-speed dinghies are pretty fragile.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Mad regulations

I still believe the majority of dinghy sailors do care. I think in these days of overcrowding and conflicting agendas - a greater degree of being 'laid back' is necessary - if only to keep our enjoyment of what we do. I try to avoid getting wound up with other peoples actions as it tends to ruin the day for me. However there are times when I see a good wind-up coming - and I am all for that! so long as you do it 'tongue in cheak'

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tcm]

Re: paddling sneakily

completely separately - is paddling not allowed in sailyboat racing? can you not kick out of the back with feet (or flippers?) to move 100 yds away where the speed might increase to 1 knot? In unofficial races i have done so but (on account of being rubbish @sailing) i have not raced for real and hence ...i don't know!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[mickshep]

Re: Mad regulations

To be honest, up here in the North I've had very little trouble with the racing fraternity (lots more open water and less boats). But I had an incident in the harbour entrance channel last year involving total w#*ker fishing off the pier with his line accross the channel, With the state off tide I was hugging the the channel only to hear a tirade of abuse from above me, I looked up in time to see a figure in dayglow orange running along the pier in frantic persuit of two fishing rods, their monofilament line, being totally invisible at sea level neatly wrapped around my forestay. The language used was so bad that I had to send my 9 yr old below, had I met him I think I'd have shoved his rods where the sun don't shine. On mentioning this incident once ashore I was told of several cases of irate fishermen actually casting lead wieghts at passing vessels including dinghies. I can only assume that such a missile would prove lethal should it strike a person. The harbour authority have placed signs all over the pier telling people not to fish the channel but they are just pulled down and thrown in the water. Mike.

<hr width=100% size=1>"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: of toys and prams

when i was young there hardly any cars on the road
the odd horse and cart maybe but they were staff and would always get out of the way or lose their jobs

well dash it and blow it doesn't our 'enry go on building cheaper cars till well, quite frankly, one's man servant could afford one

ofcourse in the days before the war one could get good servants who would rather choke than serve warm claret. but i digress.

if it isn't the case these days that not only can one's man servant afford a car but also one's butcher and even the son of one's tailor. my tailor's son!!!!!
too frightful for words. the other week oorf one trots down to the old briney to have a relax away from the stresses and strains. there i was tiller in one hand crew man in the other dreaming of the days when i as a young cove would trot around happily in my beloved clinker dinghy when what do i see before me. why a whole phalanx of young oiks, probably urchins of the estate workers no doubt, in wretched plastic things all coming at me racing like Fangio himself. i drops the manservant and handhim the g&T and heads orf to the shrouds to berate the young tikes.
one scamp responds in those gutteral tones the working class so favour these days 'oim racin m'lud. if youd kindly shift your strakes out me way'

well as far as i am concerned that is it. we have given the ingrates the roads which they pollute with their nasty cheap little cars booming past like the eighteen twelve overture, only with some blighter sreaming over the top of the music about Ho's and cribs. Beats what the nativity has to do with this music, altho maybe that is why they call it wrap?
not only the old internal combustion has come their way, but they can now all hop on planes taking the fortnight leave they all insist on having over in sangria soaked benidorm. all this rather than at pater's old holiday camp that we opened for them. too expensive, they all claim, they would even stop using the estate shop unless we threatened to turf the buggers out on their ears.

so there you have it
times have changed and not for the better i fear.
i blame those Labour wallas personally. all those unions. watt tyler has a lot to answer for.
bring back such recreations to the priveleged. let the others have clean water sewerage employment and be grateful.

<hr width=100% size=1>my wife wants to dance on my grave. I aim to be buried at sea