The dark side - The pull is strong

[Searush]

Thanks Steve. I'm thinking of a few years down the line as we have a lot of learning to do yet, but spending more time on slower boats is making me realise there is often more enjoyment in the getting there than arriving. We saw a number of large mobos thundering up the Straits yesterday at 20 odd knots, close to mooring and passing raggies and slow mobos without much care. But they're missing the point of boating a bit in my view, in too big a hurry to get to wherever they're going rather than enjoying the surroundings and the actual trip itself. Suppose it takes all sorts though.

Two blasted out past Abermenai yesterday as we came in over the Bar. No problem to me (but might have upset a few in the anchorage). I actually tried to give them both a cheery wave (yes, a proper one not a rude one) but neither of them noticed. When I had a proper look I could see why, the way they were standing at the helm they could only see straight ahead. There were lumps of "graceful plastic" completely obscuring all visibility to the side or astern - how can boat be designed & built so poorly? How can anyone think it is safe to only be able to look ahead?

OK, so I ain't going to overtake them, but another speed freak in a big powerboat, jetski, RIB or even the HSS ferry would come out of nowhere - and with their own engine noise they wouldn't even hear them coming. Daft I call it!

Oh. one other thing, the "slamming" you get in a raggie is a lot less uncomfortable than that in a MoBo. I think that is why they were driving stood up rather than seated.

 

[whisper]

FWIW I did jump over the dark side two years ago (not new to us though - been there before) and now I am back. Why? Well this is just my opinion obviously but:-
In the very odd time when the wind is perfect, the sun's out and yacht is sailing perfectly, then sailing is simply fantastic. For me these occassions are just too rare to compensate for all the downsides. In fact that is probably the only aspect when I can really say a yacht is much better than a mobo, (other than significantly extra cost for a mobo). A mobo is better in every other area of the boating experience I can think of.

Interesting and pretty much how I feel as well.
All my "long distance" boating has been under sail and for atleast 60% of the time these boats have actually been Motor Sailers due to adverse wind conditions.

I've also become more interested in investigating destinations rather than the enjoyment of extra hours at sea. Hence my share in a motor boat.

A typical example of this was today when we had a day out from Kingsbridge to the Yealm (Old Ship for excellent lunch), followed by a trip around Plymouth then anchoring up Frogmore Creek waiting for the tide to get back to K'bridge.
On the way out there was not a lot of wind and nearly all yachts, going both W'ly or E'ly were motoring and not even motor sailing. On the way home the E'ly bound yachts were wallowing somat awful, in slight but confused seas and making a couple of knots at most - UGH!!!

Another negative for sailing boats is that it seems to be harder to single hand them and/or get reliable and regular crew. Our boat is simplicity itself to single hand so you actually don't need a crew. I accept that not all motor boats are like this of course.

The major plus point of "proper" sailing is the far easier movement in heavy seas so one can
make passages whilst similar sized motor boats are still in their berths.

Two very different pastimes methinks.

 

[Kawasaki]

Now you're talking!

Now tou're talkin boll%cks!


Well
I had to say that diddle I!

Now as 'Chief Boat Adviser' I have to point summat out.

Remember the 3 types of wind fer yachties?
I will leave now for others to consider
Then I will return with more advice and some spanners in the works, as yer do.

Oh
And by the way
I forgot to say
Been racing a yoghurt last week
Spossed to go again Wednesday night
They are all completely nuts on the water
'Rules of the Road' do me a favour

OK in the Bar afters though
Didn't stick me and in me pocket

 

[Philiz]

Remember the 3 types of wind fer yacht

I think a lot of that depends on how keen you are to get the sails up

OK in the Bar afters though
Didn't stick me and in me pocket

That's because of all that dosh they've saved on fuel

 

[AndieMac]

I made the change from Fairline Targa to Nauticat 39

You probably have only made half a step really, the Nauticat is really a moboers yacht in every way.
We had one here with us, a 44 I think, a fabulous boat was on her way east to New Zealand and then through the Pacific. It certainly would be my choice of motor sailer.

Regarding the sailing cat idea, we had a bloke here recently who did full time deliveries on the 'Seawind' brand of cats (up to 40'), he also owned one.
His opinion was the motor/s was on up to 80% of the time generally, to make suitable progress, and he was going long term cruising so needed to take lots of gear (which cats don't like), so he bought a Nordhavn.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Although I'm a dyed in the wool moboer, I have sailed in friends' yachts on a few occasions and I hated it for a number of reasons. First and foremost, I've never been seasick on a mobo but the motion of a yacht induces seasickness in me, especially if I go below. The idea of enduring a 15hr cross channel trip wedged in the cockpit due to seasickness doesn't exactly fill me with excitement. Second, constantly having to brace yourself in a world which is leaning at 30deg from the horizontal is a complete pain, especially if you need to take a leak; it's no wonder yacht heads always stink. Thirdly and worst of all, it just takes forever to get anywhere. After hours of being seasick, getting cold and complete boredom. you finally spy land. One hour later, it seems just as far away which I find deeply depressing.
Then there are other issues like the lack of comfy cockpit seats, lack of deckspace for loafing because its all taken up with bits of string and wire and, as already mentioned, the coalhole interiors. IMHO, if you've got the yen to go slower, there's a solution. Just back off the throttles on your mobo and if you can't stand the noise, wear earplugs. Most pleasure yachts spend 95% of their time on passage under motor so what's the difference?

 

[nicho]

FWIW I did jump over the dark side two years ago (not new to us though - been there before) and now I am back. Why? Well this is just my opinion obviously but:-

Got fed up being inside in the dark - despite a bright newish 43ft Beneteau.
Found washboards a pain after patio doors.
When inside frustrated not to be see the outside world.
Cockpit not very sociable, compared to flybridge, large mobo cockpit.
Frustrated that 85% couldn't sail and had to use engine.
Mobo people IMHO seem a lot more sociable - actually by a long way.
Found it frustrating not to be able to access ports as not enough water.
When wet outside, have to bring wet clothes inside. Not on a mobo, they stay in the dry cockpit.

In the very odd time when the wind is perfect, the sun's out and yacht is sailing perfectly, then sailing is simply fantastic. For me these occassions are just too rare to compensate for all the downsides. In fact that is probably the only aspect when I can really say a yacht is much better than a mobo, (other than significantly extra cost for a mobo). A mobo is better in every other area of the boating experience I can think of.

After a 3 year break from motorboating back in 2003, to buy a new sailing boat, I can concur with everything you say!! It seemed we were motoring more than we were sailing (gentlemen never sail to windward), and having used the iron mainsail so many times, I thought we may as well go back to proper motorboating!!

 

[Philiz]

From the responses so far it appears I'm wrong in thinking a move form mobo to raggie is a good idea. However, I can't help but think that the responses maybe a little biased as, after all, it's on the mobo forum rather than scuttlebutt.

You may all be right, I'm willing to accept that, but if you are, why are there more raggies about than mobos?

Come on Searush, get some of the raggies to put their twopenneth in!

 

[Major Catastrophe]

But they're missing the point of boating a bit in my view, in too big a hurry to get to wherever they're going rather than enjoying the surroundings and the actual trip itself. Suppose it takes all sorts though.

On Sunday I left harbour on the main engine and then motored up to HMS Indefatigable on the auxiliary as it needed running.
I went up on the flood and came back on the ebb, realising that I had to factor in tides.

Even at 4 knots I was passing raggies using their engine and I quickly became board with plodding along - twenty minutes to go a mile or so!

 

[Philiz]

Even at 4 knots I was passing raggies using their engine and I quickly became board with plodding along - twenty minutes to go a mile or so

But the plodding along is enjoyable. Let's face it, most of the boats in PD never move. Those that do go to Abermenai or Puffin Island at the most, with the very occasional trip a bit further afield to Moelfre or Porthdinllaen. Few go much further than there. So, does it really matter if it takes you 2 hours or 4-5 hours?. My point is, dashing about in a mobo we miss point that there can be more enjoyment in a leisurely trip than the actual arriving at the destination. How many times do we dash to wherever it is we're going, drop the anchor, have a brew, then wonder what to do next?

 

[Al Dickson]

In the very odd time when the wind is perfect, the sun's out and yacht is sailing perfectly, then sailing is simply fantastic. For me these occassions are just too rare to compensate for all the downsides. In fact that is probably the only aspect when I can really say a yacht is much better than a mobo, (other than significantly extra cost for a mobo). A mobo is better in every other area of the boating experience I can think of.

Well put.

I sailed for 25 years on the Clyde and have had a mobo for the last 3 years - there is something special about being under wind power only and enjoying the journey & the challenge of sailing the boat well - but invariably when the weather was really good there was no wind and vice versa which frustrated me endlessly, forcing changes to plans, early departures and late arrivals then no space to moor anchor etc as we were late the pub had stopped serving food - the answer - well we ended up motoring a lot more than we cared to admit - often for long tedious hours with the donkey at full chat doing only 7 knots.

Then the weather would dictate we spend the evening downstairs in the saloon missing our wonderful scenery.

Last weekend was a case in point, Sunday was stunning and very few yachts were sailing as it would have taken far too long to get home for work on Monday - so they were all pootering along at 7 knots with bored looking crew.

We can now cover great distances if we want without having to leave at 7am to catch the tide or simply because it takes us all day to do 40 miles - the kids are happy - the wifes happy and the skipper is actually thoroughly enjoying himself - but then we have a Targa which will go out in anthing - maybe its the "raggies mobo" - it certainly is the right thing for us at the moment.

Most important question to ask yourself is "what are you going to use the boat for" and buy one that will tick your current boxes

 

[fireball]

You want another raggies perspective?

As you suspect - sailing isn't all about the destination - it is about the method of travel - that time when you can turn off the engine, sit back and enjoy the quiet as you slip through the water - or after a hard sail on the wind, getting soaked by waves - it is refreshing and invigorating - beating the wind gives you a sense of achievment.

The worst bits for me are during the "long" passages where you've got the sails trimmed, one person is on the helm and the others have nothing to do - that's when a good book or good conversation comes in ....

 

[Philiz]

You want another raggies perspective?

As you suspect - sailing isn't all about the destination - it is about the method of travel - that time when you can turn off the engine, sit back and enjoy the quiet as you slip through the water - or after a hard sail on the wind, getting soaked by waves - it is refreshing and invigorating - beating the wind gives you a sense of achievment.....

Thank heavens for that, a positive comment! Well put, and I see you manage with an open cockpit too!

The worst bits for me are during the "long" passages where you've got the sails trimmed, one person is on the helm and the others have nothing to do - that's when a good book or good conversation comes in ....

I'd agree with that, but all part of the experience don't you think?

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I'm only trying to save you from yourself.

Anyway, Mistique is back outside and is for sale again.

 

[[2574]]

You probably have only made half a step really, the Nauticat is really a moboers yacht in every way.
We had one here with us, a 44 I think, a fabulous boat was on her way east to New Zealand and then through the Pacific. It certainly would be my choice of motor sailer.

I fear that you don't know Nauticat very well. There are two types of Nauticat:

1) The motorsailers which are the 33, 38, 44 models. This is the type that most people recognise as a Nauticat with a square structure over the helm which has a strong motor sailer look.

2) The pilot houses which are the 385, 39, 42 and 515. These are sailing boats with a pilot house configuration and more designed toward sailing than motoring.

The motorsailers are typicaly RCD Cat B because of the sliding side doors whereas the pilot houses are Cat A with the more traditional central companionway arrangement. If you have a look here: http://www.nauticat.com/Default.aspx?id=441000 you'll see the definition and designs as described by Nauticat.

Hope that helps.

rob

 

[Searush]

Kwaker's 3 types of wind are "too strong, too light & wrong direction" but he is quite wrong again (as usual) there IS a fourth type - "Just Perfect" and that's what we had several times during carefully planned passages last week. Just in case you lot haven't aready seen this, here is an example of "Just right" wind. That's 6-7kts, completely free propulsion, quite upright & perfectly silent (apart from the gentle splash of tonic in the gin.) We did around 100 miles in the week, to al the palces we wanted to vist & used about 3 squids worth of diesel - oh and absolutely nil spent on marina fees either.

But we did spend £80 squid on a full day family trip on the Welsh Highland Railway including walking the Glaslyn torrents & a meal & shopping in Beddgelert. A great family holiday.

 

[asteven221]

From the responses so far it appears I'm wrong in thinking a move form mobo to raggie is a good idea. However, I can't help but think that the responses maybe a little biased as, after all, it's on the mobo forum rather than scuttlebutt.

You may all be right, I'm willing to accept that, but if you are, why are there more raggies about than mobos?

Come on Searush, get some of the raggies to put their twopenneth in!

My comments near the beginning of this thread IMHO and definately not biased. My boating history in 30 years:-

in order:-

14ft speed boat, 24ft long keel yacht, 25ft Seamaster mobo, 23ft Shetland mobo, 24ft Yacht, Spring 25 yacht, Moody 30 yacht, Princess 33 mobo, Fairline 40 mobo, Beneteau Oceanis 423 yacht - and now a Sealine 44ft mobo.

Why is there more raggies than mobos? Maybe cost might have a lot to do with it. Size for size, at a similar age mobos are considerably more expensive to buy and to run than a yacht.

The Cat option is something I have never even considered! Maybe something to think about when the time comes for a change. Pilothouse yachts are an option I considered, but found that unless very large they still have most of the same "problems" as any other style of yacht. There are also very few about or built in the first place as far as I can see.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Why is there more raggies than mobos?

That's because we mobos have already got to where we're going and already parked up with our first beer whereas all the yotties are still out there trying to get to where they're going and usually failing

 

[fireball]

That's because we mobos have already got to where we're going and already parked up with our first beer whereas all the yotties are still out there trying to get to where they're going and usually failing

Yer - but you'll be bored of the wait - so will have cleared off by the time we get there ...
don't forget to pick up your empties!!

 

[Searush]

Yer - but you'll be bored of the wait - so will have cleared off by the time we get there ...
don't forget to pick up your empties!!

There is some truth in this - especially with the smaller MoBo's like sports cruisers & day boats. They rush to get to an anchorage & then don't know what to do when they get there. They don't seem to enjoy reading, swimming, or walking much, so time passes slowly for them, they get bored & are off zooming round in circles "for something to do".

Cruising raggies are all about the laid back lifestyle. Hmm, I feel another thread coming on . . .